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ARPs vs. "REAL" studs

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Discussion starter · #41 ·
Re: ARPs can suck my nuts

I got an email tonight from ET Motorsports, looks like my A1's are shipping soon.
 
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#42 ·
Re: ARPs can suck my nuts

You torqued to 115 ft lb on moly? That's a shit ton of TQ. I know when I did mine to 110, they wouldn't hold any more so I will never TQ past my golden '95ft lb' no. again.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Re: ARPs can suck my nuts

No 115 was the retorque which was more oil than moly..some moly so i'd put it at like 95 on moly or so.
 
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#45 ·
Re: ARPs can suck my nuts

Sounds like they probably deformed and stretched. You wouldn't know unless you measured them. But, if that's why they failed, then it definitely wasn't the stud's fault.
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
Re: ARPs can suck my nuts

ARPs are known to stretch under high cyl pressures...thus making it the studs fault.
 
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#49 ·
A brand new set of ARP's should hold just fine. Sounds like people are reusing them and tightening them past their specs. 86ft/lbs with moly lube or 109ft/lbs with 30wt. oil is what ARP calls for using a 12 mm stud.
 
#50 ·
I pondered switching to A-1s.
Although a conversation with one of Brent Rau's crew changed that.
I was told they will stretch, just not as fast as ARPs.

I can understand running them if you are running a pro circuit and every extra run you get without pulling the head is very advantageous.

For me who refuses to meet NHRA/NOPI rules/guidelines I don't see the extra cost worth a few more passes.

I just back the timing down a few deg, sacrifice a few ponies and don't have to worry about the h/g going pfffft.

I run O-ringed blocks, receiver grooved heads and SCE standard Titan coppers on all my DSMs. Only time I have trouble with sealing is when I get greedy on the timing. Also torquing the ARPs past the recommended 85 ft/lbs yields no realistic extra holding force and only stretches them faster.
 
#51 ·
4SFED4 said:
torquing the ARPs past the recommended 85 ft/lbs yields no realistic extra holding force and only stretches them faster.
Click to expand...
Thank you!

I've been saying this for years, but it goes in one ear and out the other. Nobody ever measures free-standing or stretched length. And everybody always over-torques ARP's beyond their yield strength, and calls them weak when they fail.

99.7% of people here don't even need A-1's. If you learn to use hardware correctly, you'd be surprised at how strong most stuff really is. Hell, I've flowed 50 ft/lbs per minute and made 400 WHP on OE head bolts torqued to 65 ft/lbs and never lifted the head or pushed coolant....
 
#52 ·
I measured my ARP head studs a while back. They had been torqued to 120 ft/lbs as a stop gap for pushing coolant and ranged from 4.289" to 4.291". Anything more than .001" variance should be thrown out and ARP says you need to measure the studs when they are new to get some sort of reference point.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
I believe I stated earlier in this thread that I did INDEED torque them to the recommended specs with the moly lube, you'll note the oil and moly lubes have different torque values...but you knew that.

I'm also flowing a lot more than 50lb/min as well as will be on the bottle.
 
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#54 ·
How much air were you flowing? Were you knock free when you lifted the head? I dont see how people are having so much trouble with ARPs. I ran them at 400whp + about 200hp worth of nitrous without lifting the head. These had been re-used probably ten times, Torqued to 90-95lbs on Moly every time.
 
Discussion starter · #55 · (Edited)
I was flowing 75lb/min a couple of times over 600whp still at 10:1 AFR with no detonation or nitrous, that's when I started having problems.
 
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#56 ·
Never lost a HG with stock headbolts and major abuse. Lost a HG with minor abuse and ARP's. I've detonated the A1's extremely hard so far and she holds fine. 30psi, pump gas, 43 counts of knock, and it holds fine. Overheated 3 times, fine. Drove 10 miles home with no coolant, fine (after I replaced the frost plug that slipped out due to block flexing).

ARP's are more of a downgrade than an upgrade. Their L2 material I've heard is better. The arp 2000 hardware in their rodbolts must be fine, but their standard headstuds suck and cost me money and time.
 
#57 ·
Re: ARPs can suck my nuts

Broken said:
I don't know how that rumor got started, but I was just down there last week, and they've got hella inventory...
Click to expand...
That doesn't mean they have EVERYTHING in stock. If they did, I wouldn't have waited a month and a half for a set of rod bearings. Joe himself told me they get them from a place down the road. He also mentioned that they were having issues with that supplier.
 
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Discussion starter · #60 ·
Die-Civic-Die said:
K_man, there's nothing wrong with ARP head studs. Your head float was probably due to installation error


:poke:
Click to expand...
I find it hard to argue with DanL...since he's running 11's at over 120mph FWD on a 14b and the translator :p
 
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