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ARPs vs. "REAL" studs

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#121 ·
K_Mans_TSI said:
They didn't offer A1's when I did my motor build, remember this build started back in 2003, I bought what was available at the time that didn't require drill/tap...I also didn't expect back then to run a T70, I was planning a 3065.

Either way this thread isn't about me spending my own money, it's about why the studs stretch, what other options are there out there BESIDES ARPs, and who is using what. As this has been stated many times.
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I was at the SO with you last year 2005/2006 and you were talking to me about buying bearings. If you were still buying bearings last year, thats not 2003. Just thought Ide add that.
 
Discussion starter · #122 ·
No I had bought bearings at that point, you were asking me about your bearings and I said how they didn't offer them like that when I bought mine.

The discussion isn't about me buying them I don't know why you're not getting that.
 
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#123 ·
gota0have0boost said:
So buy the studs. No need for a 5 page discussion.:)
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:rolleyes: You didn't like how your first post was greeted and now your arguing like a noob. Your not even contributing a side to the argument at hand. Just arguing with Kurt. Why?



99gst_racer said:
Neat. So what makes you think your price is the same as mine? You you also warehouse hundreds of thousands of dollars of ARP product as well?

If I did it, I would organize a group buy on all the major DSM forums, and get them prepaid before they were manufactured.

What if I want something stronger than standard ARP's, but I don't need something as extreme as A1's. I feel there should be a middle ground, and I feel the L19's are just that. I have a feeling that they would be a popular item, especially at (potentially) half the price of A1's.
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^ Word. Consider me #1 on the group buy. As you discussed I'm on the line. 3065 isn't a big boy turbo punching out 40psi. But it will definately make 500whp. Will my ARP's hold? Flip a coin. I don't want to flip a coin. But I also don't feel like buying $400 studs. I think the extra margin with what you had in mind would be all I need to cover my ass. And the new math, $200-$50= $150 Because I'll sell my ARP's that have only been cranked down once, and never hit with any power. BEFORE I STRETCH THEM. And just drop l19's in. I'm sure someone making 400hp< would love to have them.

And another thing, anytime someone wants to give you another option. Don't fight him. ARP's<L19<A1
Running 40psi? Go to A1's
Running 30psi?+ L19
Running 30psi< ARP's

Simple. But taking the $400 anal hammer just because I'm on the edge isn't somthing I'm fond of. $200 isn't so bad. And would make a nice middle step for those, in the middle. Get it done dude. I'll buy'em.
:cool:
 
Discussion starter · #125 ·
Asmodeus said:
:rolleyes: You didn't like how your first post was greeted and now your arguing like a noob. Your not even contributing a side to the argument at hand. Just arguing with Kurt. Why?





^ Word. Consider me #1 on the group buy. As you discussed I'm on the line. 3065 isn't a big boy turbo punching out 40psi. But it will definately make 500whp. Will my ARP's hold? Flip a coin. I don't want to flip a coin. But I also don't feel like buying $400 studs. I think the extra margin with what you had in mind would be all I need to cover my ass. And the new math, $200-$50= $150 Because I'll sell my ARP's that have only been cranked down once, and never hit with any power. BEFORE I STRETCH THEM. And just drop l19's in. I'm sure someone making 400hp< would love to have them.

And another thing, anytime someone wants to give you another option. Don't fight him. ARP's<L19<A1
Running 40psi? Go to A1's
Running 30psi?+ L19
Running 30psi< ARP's

Simple. But taking the $400 anal hammer just because I'm on the edge isn't somthing I'm fond of. $200 isn't so bad. And would make a nice middle step for those, in the middle. Get it done dude. I'll buy'em.
:cool:
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EclipseRST is saying l19s are H11 tool steel, making them identical.
 
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#126 ·
EclipseRST said:
Maybe you should search about the L19s to find out they ARE EXACTLY THE SAME as A1s.

But you already know that right?
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Very good, yes, I was aware that they are of the same material.

EclipseRST said:
So what makes these studs not as "extreme" as the A1s?
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Only their price.

EclipseRST said:
The main thing that sucks about the L19s is they take 8 weeks to make. That comes directly from the ARP tech I talked with.
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Not necessarily. The largest deciding factor is availability of materials. they currently have some L19 available, so it wouldn't be a 8 week wait at all. I also checked on custom age 625, and he said inventory was currently depleted, so there would be a long wait on that.

EclipseRST said:
There is a reason why they are not made, the demand is too low and A1's are tried and proven.
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If people are willing to spend $375 for stronger head studs, then I wouldn't say the demand is low.

How does something become "tried and proven"?
Answer: someone tries it.

And like you stated, they are basically the exact same thing, so what's wrong with saving money?
 
Discussion starter · #127 ·
I think the point he's trying to make is, once you actually get these l19 studs for 200 bux you have to get the nut and washer kits, AND deal with purchasing enough to make an order, making a1's an easier choice.

Keep in mind up until last month A1's were in the 275 dollar range...making them the same price that you're getting ARPs for, but demand rose prices.
 
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#128 ·
99gst_racer said:
Where the hell are you getting this information? I never said they would be exactly $200 - I just don't think they will be more than that. And who said they didn't come with washers, nuts, and moly lube? It's funny how you act like you know what's going on with my personal L19 stud deal..... :rolleyes:
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According to 99gst_racer, his L19's DO come with washers, nuts, and moly lube.
 
#129 ·
tonyroma said:
According to 99gst_racer, his L19's DO come with washers, nuts, and moly lube.
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^ That was my impression. Maybe I need to go back and read this again?
:confused:

I thought I had a firm grasp on the fact this was a middle ground, a standard 12mm stud in L19, but coming with the nuts/washers/lube for $200.

???
 
#130 ·
K_Mans_TSI said:
I think the point he's trying to make is, once you actually get these l19 studs for 200 bux you have to get the nut and washer kits, AND deal with purchasing enough to make an order, making a1's an easier choice.

Keep in mind up until last month A1's were in the 275 dollar range...making them the same price that you're getting ARPs for, but demand rose prices.
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No, I won't be getting them for $200; If everything goes as planned, I should be able to sell them for around $200 with the washers, nuts, and lube. We'll see though. At this point I offer no garuntee. I spoke with ARP again today, and I should have pricing worked out by this afternoon or tomorrow.

It's a shame that the A1's took a recent price jump. For the old price, I'd probably just shut my mouth and buy them. :)
 
#131 · (Edited)
Asmodeus said:
^ That was my impression. Maybe I need to go back and read this again?
:confused:

I thought I had a firm grasp on the fact this was a middle ground, a standard 12mm stud in L19, but coming with the nuts/washers/lube for $200.

???
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Although I'm not exactly sure what you're confused about, that might be a good idea.

Do some research on L19/H11 steel too. I'm under the impression it is the exact same material. I have no idea what this "middle ground" 12mm L19 stud thing is...unless you consider 1/2 L19's the high ground?
 
#133 ·
bottom line here is you gotta pay to play with the big boys...and like it or not (someone in this thread said something about flipping a coin) you can buy the best of the best for your dsm and something is going to break...hell you flip a coin everyday that you still own a dsm and go outside and try to start it...i think its pretty simple at this point...

1) Either buy arps (since thats part of the usual upgrade path) and actually keep your dsm running long/well enough to run 30+psi and enjoy it, if the head lifts then upgrade.

OR

2)If your building a car that you plan on banging 40psi out on, then spend the money and get the stronger material head studs and call it a day
 
#134 · (Edited)
99gst_racer said:
I was actually referring to a direct replacement 11/12mm stud just like the standard ARP's but in L19. My company is one of ARP's largest customers, and I'm currently working out a deal/group buy for the L19 studs. I should have more information by tomorrow afternoon.
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No I was right. SEE^
:)

Whereas the standard ARP head stud was 8740.
99gst_racer said:
ARP head studs are made of 8740 chrome moly steel. It's a little less strong than their ARP2000 material. L19 is typically only used for rod bolts. The Custom Age 625 would be the next step for stronger ARP head studs.
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^ As mentioned here.

Basically talking about using the L19 for head studs, not a 1/2in stud. And not 625.

99gst_racer, comment and clear this.
 
#135 · (Edited)
Asmodeus said:
No I was right. SEE^
:)

Whereas the standard ARP head stud was 8740.


^ As mentioned here.

Basically talking about using the L19 for head studs, not a 1/2in stud. And not 625.

99gst_racer, comment and clear this.
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Asmo, you have me so confused man... I agree with everything you just said!

So lemme get this straight. You rate ARP 8740<L19<Custom 625? If so, we're in agreement.
 
#137 ·
tonyroma said:
Although I'm not exactly sure what you're confused about, that might be a good idea.

Do some research on L19/H11 steel too. I'm under the impression it is the exact same material. I have no idea what this "middle ground" 12mm L19 stud thing is...unless you consider 1/2 L19's the high ground?
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Asmodeus said:
And another thing, anytime someone wants to give you another option. Don't fight him. ARP's<L19<A1
Running 40psi? Go to A1's
Running 30psi?+ L19
Running 30psi< ARP's
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To clarify:

The only reason I said 1/2" L19's was because of the A1>L19 post shown above. As I said earlier, H11 (which A1's are made of) and L19 are the same material.

1/2" L19's (or H11's :p), I assumed would be the step following L19's, without going to Custom 625 that is.
 
#139 ·
Does anyone know of a vendor that sells the A1's? I looked on there website but I didn't see anything but pic's under there "product" link........unless I was looking at the wrong website or something.
 
#140 ·
tonyroma said:
To clarify:

The only reason I said 1/2" L19's was because of the A1>L19 post shown above. As I said earlier, H11 (which A1's are made of) and L19 are the same material.

1/2" L19's (or H11's :p), I assumed would be the step following L19's, without going to Custom 625 that is.
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OK I'm good now. I had thought the A1 studs were stronger than the L19 material. I thought I had read it carefully, but must have missed that detail.
Thank you.
 
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