DSMTalk Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

Tial Wastegate springs or MBC for the Tial?

Jump to Latest
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
T

tarantula

· Registered
Joined
·
2,759 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am saving for a FP3052 with Tial 44mm setup. And I currently have a Joe P MBC. When I was looking up parts for the pricing, I found that the Tial wastegates have different spring pressures that you can buy.
So my question is what do most of you guys do for boost control with these tial wastegate setups?
Do you leave the standard spring it comes with and use the MBC for boost adjustments?
OR
Do you just buy the spring pressure that you want the boost to be set at? Is this method a much more accurate boost control.?

I want to boost around 21psi (If I bought the springs it would be Large blue + Small Blue for 20.305 psi or Large blue + Large yellow for 21.755 psi)

Give me your experienced advice guys.
 
#2 ·
I use a mbc with my external gate. It would be a pain in the ass if I wanted to change my boost and either had to buy a different spring to put in and wait for it to get here. Or if I already had one I would still need to take the wastegate apart. I don't know if you ever put a wastegate together, but it would be pretty hard to get the wastegate back together if it was on the car.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Yeah i never had to take apart a wastegate, but the tial 44mm is a V-band Wastegate. I'm assuming it would be easier to take out.
But I see your point.
Any one Else?
 
#4 ·
I believe the premise behind the different rate springs is that if you are running lots of power/boost, the exhaust pressure can some times overwhelm the lower springs. The larger ones are to keep that from happening(also to adjust when it opens I know). My opinion is if the MBC is working fine with what you are doing keep using it.
 
#5 ·
TiAl says you can double the spring pressure with a mbc. So if you had a 10psi you could run 20psi.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Discussion starter · #6 ·
partemisio said:
TiAl says you can double the spring pressure with a mbc. So if you had a 10psi you could run 20psi.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to this info.?



So it seems that its a common practice to use a MBC with the Tial Wastegate. I thought by using the springs I could get rid of one thing (the MBC). I currently have the original Joe P XZ MBC and thought ofgetting rid of it by using the tial springs. I guess I will upgrade to the Joe P Pro Z MBC and the Pro mount for it to match the Tial.
I just didn't want to route a hose all the way to the tial over the Exhaust manifold.
Hopefully someone that does adjust boost by use of the Tial springs can chime in here.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
slowAWDTSi said:
I believe the premise behind the different rate springs is that if you are running lots of power/boost, the exhaust pressure can some times overwhelm the lower springs. The larger ones are to keep that from happening. My opinion is if the MBC is working fine with what you are doing keep using it.
Click to expand...
Ok instead of starting a new thread I figure I'll update on this one to get my answer.
Now I have the 44mm Tial and the FP3052 and also bought the Joe P Pro Z with monting bracket. All was great, until I hit 19psi and wanted more. I installed the Stop leak on my 1G bov because I thought I was leaking boost. Now its completely sealed and I can't seem to hit a steady boost pressure above 19. I wanted 21-22 and with any adjustment towards raising boost, It drops back down to 18-19psi at higher rpms. It has hit 24psi but quickly drops and moves up and down around 18-19 on the boost guage as I increase the rpms at wot.
So does this mean that my tial spring can not hold even though I have the MBC controlling boost and that I now have to get another spring?
I have it hooked to the side valve and the top valve is vented. This is the whole reason behind this thread in the first place.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
slow1 said:
what is your base pressure without your mbc? Unless you have a 10psi spring, sounds like you may have a problem with boost leaks or your mbc. Can you put a stiffer spring in your mbc like the hallman's?
Click to expand...
The engine setup has zero boost leaks cause I checked. I also installed the leak stop for the BOV and I pressure tested that also. The spring in the 44mm Tial is .9bar (13.053 psi) Without the mbc it boost up to 15. I thought maybe my exhaust pressure is blowing open the wastegate. The New MBC is completely sealed so I can't dismantle it. Its the new Pro Z from Joe P
My engine setup has less than 2000 miles.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Ok I tried with no hoses connected to the wastegate. I completely disconnected the MBC. Went for a short run and WOW I was shocked as the boost needle went all the way around past 30.
So this confirms that my wastegate holds. I reconnected the wastegate.
So I looked at the stop leak (Dejon Tools) and disconnected it and went at it and it went up to 22psi and dropped to 20 psi. So I zip tied all the hoses going to the stop leak and raised the boost. I think I was having a small leak.
Originally Posted by slow1
sounds like you may have a problem with boost leaks or your mbc.
Click to expand...
You was right. It was tight when the car was cold but the heat made the silicone vacuum hoses a little more pliable and therefore some boost was leaking.

Connected everything and raised the boost (my goal is 25) and went at it. Boost spiked to 25 dropped to 24 than by 6K dropped to 22psi and stayed to redline.
I'm glad I figured that out cause I really did not want to take apart the tial wastegate.
 
#12 ·
iAl says you can double the spring pressure with a mbc. So if you had a 10psi you could run 20psi.
Click to expand...

That is apparently not factual. I have been able to run 33psi on a Joe P MBC with a 0.5bar spring in my TiAL 38 EWG. :dunno: ;)
 
#13 ·
diambo4life said:
That is apparently not factual. I have been able to run 33psi on a Joe P MBC with a 0.5bar spring in my TiAL 38 EWG. :dunno: ;)
Click to expand...
I've heard this from a few Tial reps as well. I take it with a grain of salt as this is what they guarentee it to hold consistent, solid pressure up to.
 
#14 ·
tarantula said:
... I'm glad I figured that out cause I really did not want to take apart the tial wastegate.
Click to expand...
Let me tell you ... It's not fun putting that thing back together with 23psi springs in there :squint:
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#15 · (Edited)
90_talon_matt said:
I've heard this from a few Tial reps as well. I take it with a grain of salt as this is what they guarentee it to hold consistent, solid pressure up to.
Click to expand...
Yup, it's definitely not needed with a decent MBC on there. Held until redline too. That was the most I could run on it. Small green spring which is a 0.5 bar. Log screenshot attached below. :dunno:

I now have big green and small green springs in it. Should get to 40psi easily now. ;)

LordDigi, I normally just use a vice and slowly compress the springs in there. Much safer. :D
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #18 ·
I figured I'll update this thread as well. I finally decided to try the max spring rate. I bought the small blue spring to go with my large blue that comes in my Tial.
First it was a alot of work. Definately not an easy task. After I finally got it open (My vise is not big enough so I had to put my weight on top of it to get the screws off.) I was so surprised at how large the spring really is. Any way I put both springs in and had to have my daughter get on my back so that I can weigh more just to get that bitch closed again. I used my Knee. Don't ever want to do that again. So glad I went with max pressure!

Well even though the spring pressure combo says that its 20.3 psi for the 44mm Tial, My guage shot up to a little over 23 psi with no MBC. (It says for the 38-41mm Tials the Small-Big Blue spring combo would yield 23psi but I have the 44mm and it says it supposed to be 20psi :dunno: )

Well I'm really happy with my purchase and now can say that I prefer to use the spring pressure over just the MBC. I get a more stable boost response (no spikes) and its easier to reach my 25 psi goal. Also less adjustment for the MBC.
With the 15 psi spring I had boost drop off at higher RPM's. The exhaust pressure would overcome the Wastegates 15psi spring. Now with more Spring pressure its alot harder for the exhaust to overcome the higher pressure therefore I now get no boost drop off up top.
 
#19 ·
I have the large green and am ordering the small blue as we speak. As I was spiking to 35 and dropping off to 33-32 psi, sometimes 30 when hot outside.

Man, the spring nearly broke my hand when the top of the waste gate came off, right into the wall haha. I dont know how I will get them back in but it will get done. Could I borrow your daughter for more weight? I only weight a buck 65 tops.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Discussion starter · #20 ·
The_EE said:
I have the large green and am ordering the small blue as we speak. As I was spiking to 35 and dropping off to 33-32 psi, sometimes 30 when hot outside.

Man, the spring nearly broke my hand when the top of the waste gate came off, right into the wall haha. I dont know how I will get them back in but it will get done. Could I borrow your daughter for more weight? I only weight a buck 65 tops.
Click to expand...
LOL I weigh 170. The longer screw idea is the best one next to having my daughter on my back. (she weighs 30lbs)You would only need 2 screws.

Isn't the large blue/Small blue the max? Why not do for max since you are boosting so high.?

Its so easy to control my 25psi goal. Sometimes it spikes to 27 but quickly settles to 25.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
About this Discussion
20 Replies
10 Participants
Last post:
The_EE
DSMTalk Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum
posts
2.3M
members
104K
Since
2000
A forum community dedicated to Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser and Eagle Talon owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, turbos, builds, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General DSM Tech and Tuning Help! Tech Newbie Questions Forum Body Tech and Appearance Electronics Tech