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16g-95GSX

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
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Just a few preliminary pics of my surge tank that I'll be running this time around. Dual bosch 044 pumps mounted directly to the tank. I'll have some pics of the setup when its done being powdercoated wrinkle black. I run E85, so the tank is made from SS, and therefore for the bungs had to be steel. Therefore I'm having it coated so that it won't look rusty down the road.
 
WOW! I've seen that thread title for a while, just never clicked on it because I thought someone needed help with a connector/electrical.:wall: I have the same "style" harness in my car. I don't have the patience for wiring, so I had my tuner do it for me. Like you said, expensive, but shaved well over 40lbs off the car. Good luck with the project. She looks great!

Any chance you're going to either of the shootouts this year?

-Mike
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Im considering going this year for the first time so that I can meet a few of the guys that have helped me throughout the years.
 
please explain this in more detail. Do you feed this from the stock tank?:eek:
 
I'm interested in this as well, seeing as I was planning to run this exact setup.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
The stock 2g fuel tank stinks from a performance standpoint. The tank does not work well under high acceleration due to sloshing of the fuel and losing suction from the pump. You can alleviate this issue by running a full fuel cell, but that requires typically running a tank in the trunk which takes up a ton of space, requires you to have a new firewall made, and is just plain annoying to fill. What a surge tank does is act as an accumulator from which to draw fuel from. The system starts with a walbro 255lph in the tank pumping into this tank which will be mounted in the engine bay where the battery used to be. This tank is filled with zero pressure as there is a overflow port on the very top of it which simply allows all excess fuel to gravity feed back into the main fuel tank using a return line similar to the factory return line. The dual 044 bosch pumps on the side of this tank then pump the fuel from this tank through the normal fuel rail and regulator system under high pressure. Since this tank is very vertical in nature it provides the perfect method for maintaining fuel over the pumps' pickups. The return from your AFPR simply returns back into this tank, so in essence you have a loop of fuel continuously taking place solely in the engine bay. Since this tank holds ideally zero pressure the walbro 255lph in the main fuel tank has almost no resistance and therefore flows almost double of what a normal walbro would under full boost fuel pressure.

Assume you had 1600cc injectors, that were at 100% duty ALL the time, not just at the very peak upper rpm levels, but rather continuously. That would mean you are requiring 6400cc/min of fuel flow from this tank which is 3800cc total in volume. That by itself would mean that this tank would maintain volume for 35 seconds continuously, without any additional filling. Of course though you have a walbro 255lph flowing into it at 0 pressure, at say 230lph, or 3800cc/min, which would further increase that time to 52.5 seconds before the tank empties. There aren't too many places that I would dare keep my foot in the throttle for any more than 50 seconds :)
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
A 2g fuel cell is also very shallow. You can not install a dual pump system in it without the use of the custom CNC'd full blown dual walbro system. This system however requires you to further remove portions of the factory fuel baffle from around the pumps which hurts their ability to main fuel during heavy G's. Since the dual 044's mount right to the side of this tank it makes it extremely easy to run on any setup, and you can keep the factory fuel pickup/level indicator/walbro in the original tank, making it user friendly and relatively cheap.
 
Now what have you done for the return line. Considering you cannot return 2 044 pumps and a walbro into the single sender. And if you return into the driver side how do you pump fuel from one side to the other? I'm having the same troubles. I'm seriously considering making a fuel cell that fits in the stock location. HELP?
 
The return from the fuel rails go back to the surge tank, which is looped back to the factory tank. The surge tank is the only thing returning fuel to the factory tank, so it will work just like stock.
 
If you return in the stock return line on a second gen with high volume you will not be able to keep the fuel rail pressure down or return fast enough. There is a siphon mechanism that restricts it.
 
A 2g fuel cell is also very shallow. You can not install a dual pump system in it without the use of the custom CNC'd full blown dual walbro system. This system however requires you to further remove portions of the factory fuel baffle from around the pumps which hurts their ability to main fuel during heavy G's. Since the dual 044's mount right to the side of this tank it makes it extremely easy to run on any setup, and you can keep the factory fuel pickup/level indicator/walbro in the original tank, making it user friendly and relatively cheap.
You can very easily run 2 Walbro pumps in the tank without modifying the baffle.
 
Discussion starter · #16 · (Edited)
You can very easily run 2 Walbro pumps in the tank without modifying the baffle.
When I ran my full blown system back in the day they required you to remove portions of the factory baffle. I probably have the instructions around here somewhere if I needed to copy and paste them up. I was able to keep the lower portion of the baffle, but I removed the very top portion. The system worked great, but if the tank level would get low you could definately notice baffle issues during high G events. I logged fuel pressure and would watch it go from 80psi down to 30psi or so bouncing around during lateral G's; not exactly something I liked seeing at WOT 35psi. If the tank was kept over halfway full then I never saw any issues due to the pumps able to maintain suction. Even keeping a portion of the baffle there required both fuel socks to be overlapped on top of one another as they would hit the factory baffle.
 
Discussion starter · #17 · (Edited)
If you return in the stock return line on a second gen with high volume you will not be able to keep the fuel rail pressure down or return fast enough. There is a siphon mechanism that restricts it.
There are two loops of fuel taking place here:

The walbro 255lph intank to the surge tank, and then returned excess fuel from the surge tank back to the main tank by gravity.

Then there is the dual 044 pumps fed from the surge tank through the rails and regulator back to the surge tank itself.

The second loop is the one that you are confused about. Since the high volume flow does not return back to the main fuel tank there is no worries about the siphon in the factory tank. In reality if the fuel volume inside of the tank increased to the point that excess fuel was pushed through the return port back to the main tank, there would be more pressure than simply gravity taking hold, but I say it is gravity fed to give you a better idea that it is simply a overflow port.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
For those that havent seen it,

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JNZ coated it, JMF made it. I gave Jim a basic dimensioned design of how the tank should be setup and the pump location and he took care of the rest. I powdercoated it because the bungs on my tank are steel, so they would rust over time and this will keep the tank looking clean forever. Coating it cost 38 bucks.
 
Ah, yeah I don't run the full blown setup. I logged amperage or each pump with 5gal in the tank and didn't see a drop like that.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
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