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Melbowski

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Alright here, as said in the title every time I push in the clutch my '98 TSI AWD stalls. It doesn't struggle, it doesn't sputter, it just dies like I turned the key off. It also doesn't seem to care what I'm doing; coasting to a stop, shifting gears, sitting in neutral, moving or not; no matter what if I push in the clutch the car dies. I can however keep it running if I hold the gas a little with the clutch pushed in.

It also seems to be progressive, the rpm's drop as you push in the clutch until about an inch from the floor the engine dies. Speed of pushing the clutch yields the same results. It was suggested that I turn up the BISS which at roughly 1500 rpm's will drop to about 500 when fully depressed only while the engine is cold. Once engine is at operating temperature it is instant stall regardless of idle speed.

I did some searching with no definite answers. The biggest thing I heard was "OMFG crank walk yo!" so fearing the worst I tested my end play. It pushes out between 17-20 thousandths, is that within normal specs? I found plenty of people rambling about crank walk, but no mention of what specs are normal. Also it doesn't seem to show the other symptoms of crank walk; no ticking, no loss of clutch pressure, just the stalling ordeal.

Beyond the threat of crank walk, it was suggested to test the IAC/ISC and if all else fails, tear open the tranny to see if my clutch has fallen apart. So, does anyone have any other ideas, or has experienced the same problem? This has happened very suddenly, as in just this morning it was fine and then bam, mid-way through the day it stalls every time I push in the clutch.

Only current issue with the car is that the speed sensor has died and no one has anything in stock so I can fix it. The car is running a 14b with mbc set to ~12 psi (yes I have a real boost gauge) with fmic and 3" exhaust, nothing too drastic. Car has about 60k on rebuilt motor, and ~150k on the body. Any ideas or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the novel, and thank you all in advance.

Melbowski
 
Unfortunately man it may be the dreaded C-word. If it isn't, I'd say its flywheel issue of some sort, as lightweight flywheels drop RPM quickly too. Maybe you lost some teeth? Here's a pretty good thread on tooners:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/238013-big-problem-push-clutch-car-stall.html

I'm pretty sure the in out play isn't a problem. I'd be more concerned about side-to-side and up-down play. Maybe someone with a bit more expertise can help. Best of luck man, hope it's nothing too serious. Good reason to build a stroker though....
 
Crankshaft endplay spec; .0020-.0071 in. (according to my source, someone please correct me if this is innacurate).

If it is a crankwalk issue, I would have to assume that the ECU is losing a crankshaft position signal due to a tone wheel moving away from the sensor pickup. I'm not sure what kind of tools you have access to, but a relativley non-invasive way to confirm this would be to put a labscope on the crankshaft position sensor signal output, and see what happens to your square wave as you begin to push in the clutch. Obviously, if the engine dies, you will lose your output regardless (as the engine is not spinning). What you would have to look for is an erratic signal that gets progressivley worse as you depress the clutch (look for rapid spikes/troughs on the output).
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Just out of curiosity...are you recirculating your BOV?
Yeah, my BOV is recirculated, first thing I fixed when I bought it. I really hope this isn't crank walk, but it seems like that's the general consensus :(.

I tested the in and out movement on the crank, but I don't recall being able to move it around at all by hand either. Can anyone link me to a guide on how to fully check for crank walk such as side to side movement, so I can make sure I'm checking this properly?

Thank you all for your help so far, I'll keep this updated as I try to pin down exactly what the problem is. Feel free to post anymore suggestions or ideas, thanks again.

Melbowski
 
... I'd say its flywheel issue of some sort, as lightweight flywheels drop RPM quickly too....
When changing from a stock flywheel to a lighter one, my car would stall out sometimes, but not as bad as the op's.
This was NOT soley the flywheels fault, it was just that its presence made the other issues (slight boost leak, tune, base timing, etc) more pronounced. The car ran fine with these problems while running the factory flywheel and the ecu had time to "catch" the falling rpm. With the other problems fixed the car ran fine with the light flywheel.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Well, it's definately looking like the dreaded crankwalk. I started working on getting the oil pan off, that'll give me the for sure answer. Either way, what can I do if the car has crankwalk? My current plan is to just replace the bearing, as in another month I'll be driving the 3000GT and can devote more time to fixing the talon.

I know that is just a band-aid and not a solution, but exactly how long will it work for? More into the long run what can I do to cure this crankwalk issue? I'm not too keen on swapping to a 6-bolt, so what are my other options? All I found in searching was the swap but that's a lot of time/money that I don't have atm.

Whatever the case, I do plan to keep the car so I'll fix it one way or another. Thank you all for your help, I'm hoping the replacement will at least make it drivable for a month until I swap cars. Thanks again.

Melbowski
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Update on the Talon, finally! Pulled the pan and pulled out the bearings, and oddly enough these look like the stock bearings... The only thing stamped on them is D78 no brand or anything. Either way the thrust bearing is ground to crap on the clutch side, other side looks very minimal wear. This was definately giving me cranwalk, so at least I know what the problem is.

On the side, perhaps I'm being optimistic, but these bearings look like they are the originals. If they are then with 155k perhaps it is long-term wear. When I bought it the guy said it was rebuilt because they did it when they swapped in new rods/pistons (he wanted to do autocross) so he could up the boost, but lost interest and never got around to getting DSMlink so he just used it as a DD. It doesn't burn any oil or have any smoke, so I'd assume at the very least that the VSS have been replaced. That said perhaps he was working from the top-down and therefore didn't replace the crank bearings. If so maybe I'll come out of this alright, it's a long shot, but one way or another I'm not ditching this DSM.

The other end is perhaps I just got raped on the car and he didn't do dick but abuse it (probably more likely), we'll soon see since I'm going to finish replacing the bearings. I'll drive it until it dies again, and if it pukes I'll just do a 6-bolt swap over the summer. I can't really complain since I have two other cars to drive until the Talon is back on its feet.

Like I said, I'm not going to ditch the car, it's a true 98 TSI/AWD and last I knew they're pretty rare for that year so I'd like to hang onto it. I'll nurse this thing back to health and be another proud member of the "My DSM Actually Runs" club :burnout:.

Thanks for all your help so far guys, I really do appreciate it. I'll keep the updates coming as things come up. Thanks again.

Melbowski
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Alright, this thread has been stagnating for a while, but a new developement has arrisen. That being that I've replaced the bearing and less than 10 miles later I'm still having the exact same issues! WTF!? I know CW is a beast but last I knew it took thousands of miles (about 5k or so from what I've read) to get the symptoms back. That said I'm really starting to lean trowards CW not being the real problem here.

Anywho, this weekend I'm going to replace the crank sensor and pray to the DSM gods. Maybe I'll get lucky and this whole thing could have been a blessing in disguise since the other bearings were obviously worn. We'll see what happens, and as always I'll keep updating this thing, if for nothing else but for some later user to learn from my mistakes, or perhaps from my success. Thanks again to all those who have posted.

Melbowski
 
I really think an engine swap is a good idea because for most engines once it catches the cw bug it seems to be progressively more common, but maybe I'm being pessimistic. Check out jackstransmissions.com they have a warranteed 7 bolt rebuild that garuntees to CW, they probably remove some of the oil squirters to get better oil pressure as that seems like the general idea as to how CW develops, lack of oil on that bearing.
 
Not to thread jack but I’m right there with u man. My car died right after making a loud ticking noise when I was trolling through a parking lot, she turned back on and the noise was present for a few seconds then went away. I drove about 3 miles and she dies out, crank no start. I replaced the crank sensor now she starts and has the constant ticking noise and when slight pressure is applied to my clutch noise gets louder then dies if I press clutch all the way in. I’m tryna be optimistic as well and hope it’s a clutch problem, Ima start tearing down this weekend if I can and see if I can lend some useful info.
 
I second Jacks for a good 7 bolt, they have a guarantee on getting rid of excessive crankshaft end play and I believe they leave the oil squirters in, as they are pretty important.
 
Do you Know how to drive stick?? :really:

If it is Cwalk i really, Really Am sorry for your loss- I hope she gets better soon.. :(
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Not to thread jack but I’m right there with u man. My car died right after making a loud ticking noise when I was trolling through a parking lot, she turned back on and the noise was present for a few seconds then went away. I drove about 3 miles and she dies out, crank no start. I replaced the crank sensor now she starts and has the constant ticking noise and when slight pressure is applied to my clutch noise gets louder then dies if I press clutch all the way in. I’m tryna be optimistic as well and hope it’s a clutch problem, Ima start tearing down this weekend if I can and see if I can lend some useful info.
Glad to see I'm not the only one fighting my car, seems like I've been messing with the talon forever and getting nowhere. As for your GSX if you're hitting the crank sensor, then you definately have excessive end-play. I had 30 thousenths (.030) of play and it never touched the sensor. Check how much play you have and go from there, it's much faster than dropping the tranny to check the clutch. Good luck to you, hopefully we can both have drivable DSMs.

Current status on the Talon is still down and out. End-play is at 5 thousenths (.005) so it's in spec, so that's not my issue, at least not atm. I built a pressure tester and found massive leaks! I fixed all of those, but the problem has not shown much improvement. The car doesn's die anymore when you push the clutch, only if you hold it in and rev it, it's like it can't catch itself.

Meanwhile, I checked my IAC, cleaned it and it moves just fine. FIAV seems fine, the idle lowers as the car gets warmer. TPS was tested and is fine, and properly adjusted. Even with the boost/vacuum leaks fixed if I crank the BISS all the way in it just barely gets to 750 RPM. I just can't figure out what is causing my stalling.

I bought Evoscan to see if I could find anything that way, but it refuses to connect to my ecu, it just gives me FTDI read error - 4, which I can find no info online for what that means or how to fix it. Likewise I tried using MHIScan to not much avail, it will connect, but the numbers just jump all over the place even when the car is not running. I have no idea why it will not log, as it connects and is read just fine with a typical hand-held OBD-II reader, all the live data is read just fine.

I'm really leaning towards getting a 95 eprom and DSMlink so I can at least log. I'm also getting really close to just saying F it, and doing a swap.

Anywho, thank you all for keeping this thread going, I appreciate the ideas, as well as the comments. Any more suggestions would be great, I'll update as the situation progresses. Thanks again,

Melbowski
 
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