With new technology being added to the turbos now and days. Will we see a good solid replacement for the EVO III 16g? The MHI turbo has been a proven turbo for years, time for a new kid on the block?
Replacement for EVO III 16g.
n0rthendtr00per
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I think the evo3 will likely be the last to be discontiued. It is OE... it's not like some shop is making it.
You can't really improve on it. What would you want more out of it? It's compressor housing is essentially maxed, it's 100% bolt on and VERY reliable.
Trying to make more flow out of such a small compressor cover is stupid IMO.
Would you want new technology to make this thing spool faster? I'm getting 25psi at like 3200rpms. If you want to go fast, you don't choose a turbo this small. Plain and simple. The evo3 is great for what it is.
You can't really improve on it. What would you want more out of it? It's compressor housing is essentially maxed, it's 100% bolt on and VERY reliable.
Trying to make more flow out of such a small compressor cover is stupid IMO.
Would you want new technology to make this thing spool faster? I'm getting 25psi at like 3200rpms. If you want to go fast, you don't choose a turbo this small. Plain and simple. The evo3 is great for what it is.
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The holsets are great. I love my Holset in every way. Compared to a 16G though it really is a toss up, all the supporting mods you have to buy for the HX plus the housing or manifold depending which way you go and the obvious motor mods. I loved my 16g, just wish I was smart enough to tune it, I was building 10psi just by free reving, no rev limiter.
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808 Posts
How about small A/R T3 and T25 flanged turbos. Nobody buys them, a GT28 in a .63 could outperform a E316G, nobody does it because it is not Mitsubishi flanged.
Don't forget, people only develop what will make them money, an old school mitsubishi flanged turbo for rotting DSM's isnt it. And, if you are a DSM'er and spending $1500 on a turbo, your probably going to end up with a garret GT series or a borg warner ETT and nobody buys a small turbo spending that much money.
Holsets are just coming into the DSM world, when in other car communities they have come and gone, they are not new. I don't see them going "mainstream."
Don't forget, people only develop what will make them money, an old school mitsubishi flanged turbo for rotting DSM's isnt it. And, if you are a DSM'er and spending $1500 on a turbo, your probably going to end up with a garret GT series or a borg warner ETT and nobody buys a small turbo spending that much money.
Holsets are just coming into the DSM world, when in other car communities they have come and gone, they are not new. I don't see them going "mainstream."
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405 Posts
They already are. It's not like they don't do better than a garrett that matches it in spool. That's a foregone conclusion.
They came into the saab, bmw, porsche, audi world and stayed. And also the nissan (ka24 especially). They arn't going anywhere in those platforms any time soon. But you have to think outside of the united states to see that. . .
EDIT:
. . . IF they go, DSMers are morons like the rest of the world says they are. The rest of the world thinks we just bolt shit on that everyone else, or shep, uses. Adn we don't think about what options are there. Or what will result. I'd like to think that we still are DIY-ers with the brainse to see a good option when it stares you in the face. It's not like the BW or garrett or even MHI turbos as OEM arn't on the same kind of platforms as Holsets. Every big turbo you know that's worked with a dsm 20g and up has been oem on a diesel at some point in history.
They came into the saab, bmw, porsche, audi world and stayed. And also the nissan (ka24 especially). They arn't going anywhere in those platforms any time soon. But you have to think outside of the united states to see that. . .
EDIT:
Takes the same supporting mods to max out a n evo3 16g as it takes to see the potential of the hx35. Difference is that the hx35 will push the supporting mods to it's limit. and the 16g will be stuck at under 450whp. . . The 6bolt can take an hx35 all day long
. . . IF they go, DSMers are morons like the rest of the world says they are. The rest of the world thinks we just bolt shit on that everyone else, or shep, uses. Adn we don't think about what options are there. Or what will result. I'd like to think that we still are DIY-ers with the brainse to see a good option when it stares you in the face. It's not like the BW or garrett or even MHI turbos as OEM arn't on the same kind of platforms as Holsets. Every big turbo you know that's worked with a dsm 20g and up has been oem on a diesel at some point in history.
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405 Posts
... and it's funny that every unit yelling: "holset nuthugger" has proven to be a "garrett nuthugger". Maybe, just maybe, it's a viable option and it works WELL. Just like a garrett or whatever turbo. A good turbo is a good turbo. It's not like the secret to making power with a turbocharger is foreign or new. Air is air. Flow is flow. Spool speed is spool speed. . . As mentioned, it's not like they don't work well, on stock blocks with stock manifolds. . . Go figure.
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808 Posts
DSM owners of today are sacks, they are too inexpensive for anybody to give two shits. You are clearly smart enough to understand the situation, but still have hope when I personally don't. The difference (I think) between late DSM owners and other automotive enthusiast groups is that they are actually car people! There are just SO many dsm owners trying to DD them, they are always a side project, or never complete. Buy it race it break it sell it. Or, like you said, a place to throw money. It's rarely, truly, about the car itself, it's just a car they happen to own at the time. ...Is what I think, anyways.
Personal prediction? Holset turbos will never be a marketable item, will not get enough exposure to the mass of morons, and will click along in the "underground" until something changes
edit: I don't want to be misunderstood for my usage of garret as an example, I simply picked a (probably) comperable I have never seen on a DSM. There's a lot of things not tried which could be.
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405 Posts
I like that: underground. You're right on with what I'm thinking . DSMers today ARE sacks! You've clearly been around long enough to see the epic transformation.
I can understand exactly what you said now. I agree with what you're saying now that it's been clarified. I think something will click. . . If not. then like you said, I reserve my original statement to protest that the "modern" dsmer is a moron
And Yes! I see the new dsm crowd acting as ignorant as you're suggesting. It's so sad. But with stupidity, there's hope. This makes things still affordable. As the masses still don't get what it takes, nor cares since they only are in it for instant gratification through experience that only their dsm neighbor can provide. So some things that are 'underground' remain 'underground'; providing a community benefit to those that MERRIT the opportunity to run something that costs so much less. Supply and Demand is a result, not a cause
. DSMers today ARE sacks! You've clearly been around long enough to see the epic transformation.I can understand exactly what you said now. I agree with what you're saying now that it's been clarified. I think something will click. . . If not. then like you said, I reserve my original statement to protest that the "modern" dsmer is a moron
And Yes! I see the new dsm crowd acting as ignorant as you're suggesting. It's so sad. But with stupidity, there's hope. This makes things still affordable. As the masses still don't get what it takes, nor cares since they only are in it for instant gratification through experience that only their dsm neighbor can provide. So some things that are 'underground' remain 'underground'; providing a community benefit to those that MERRIT the opportunity to run something that costs so much less. Supply and Demand is a result, not a cause
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405 Posts
BTW, I love the lotus based sirius head and the incomparably durable and capapble block of the 4g. Never will there be another motor in my mind Perhaps that's the reason why I try to find SOMETHNG to push the block that fits in my budget. And am patient enough to study the results over the years with my own car and with others around me. . . It is about the community. And I do feel sad that it's failing of late.
I guess I think the hx35 will stay because it so cheap that the cheap asses will like it. Since it's so easy to get it to perform. . . But then again, 450s and a turbo upgrade with a stock sidemount and 30psi just never add up. And that's who's now looking for a turbo upgrade these days
Perhaps that's the reason why I try to find SOMETHNG to push the block that fits in my budget. And am patient enough to study the results over the years with my own car and with others around me. . . It is about the community. And I do feel sad that it's failing of late.I guess I think the hx35 will stay because it so cheap that the cheap asses will like it. Since it's so easy to get it to perform. . . But then again, 450s and a turbo upgrade with a stock sidemount and 30psi just never add up. And that's who's now looking for a turbo upgrade these days
I'd love to run an EVO X turbo personally. I've ported the entire exhaust side on an EVO IX setup and I can say the turbine housing has quite a large A/R yet the spoolup is outstanding, same thing with the compressor cover. I'd kill for a divided scroll setup, very interesting how they actually cast the scroll divider. The exhaust manifold inner and outer cylinder banks could still benefit from better merging as cylinders 1&4 basically aim right into each other, same as cylinders 2&3. Almost similar to a 2g exhaust manifold in this respect, so there is still some room for high rpm power with a tubular style header.
The same EVO IX with the stock unported 16g based on the datalogs shows 26 psi by 3500 rpms. Why Mitsubishi doesn't just slap a 20g compressor in there is beyond me. I do know this, that car was running nothing but pump gas with a peak of 26 psi dropping to 20 near redline and knock sum and knock retard was essentially zero on a stock EVO FMIC. The hotside has alot to do with that, and the lower ignition timing advance that EVO's are famous for running.
For what it is, the EVO3 16g is a great turbo. I still don't know what the upper limit on it is but when you need something that can carve it up in tight traffic it is a hard turbo to beat, yet still have the topend to crush most street cars. Garrett and IHI have tried to produce a better turbo in this category, and they have failed badly to do it, even with both providing ball bearing cartridges.
What I personally would do, is switch over to an EVO swap. At that point, you get all the juicy upgrades like the FP green hta, red, etc. with wicked spoolup.
The same EVO IX with the stock unported 16g based on the datalogs shows 26 psi by 3500 rpms. Why Mitsubishi doesn't just slap a 20g compressor in there is beyond me. I do know this, that car was running nothing but pump gas with a peak of 26 psi dropping to 20 near redline and knock sum and knock retard was essentially zero on a stock EVO FMIC. The hotside has alot to do with that, and the lower ignition timing advance that EVO's are famous for running.
For what it is, the EVO3 16g is a great turbo. I still don't know what the upper limit on it is but when you need something that can carve it up in tight traffic it is a hard turbo to beat, yet still have the topend to crush most street cars. Garrett and IHI have tried to produce a better turbo in this category, and they have failed badly to do it, even with both providing ball bearing cartridges.
What I personally would do, is switch over to an EVO swap. At that point, you get all the juicy upgrades like the FP green hta, red, etc. with wicked spoolup.
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381 Posts
I picked up my E316G for $200 used in perfect shape - 0 shaft play any which way you try. Mated that to a PR O2 housing with a Tial 38mm EWG and i get no creep, I keep 25 psi to redline (at least from what I can tell on my gauge, haven't logged my MAP sensor in awhile) and with e85 as readily available as it is in my area, it makes for one hell of a fun street car. I plan on throwing a set of FP2/Comp 200 cams into the mix next spring and hopefully being done with it. Since I don't want to sell my O2/EWG setup, I'm going to stick with the mitsu flange so I may have a BEP .55 HX-35 in my future but we'll see if I have the motivation to do so down the road. In the meantime, I'm loving the EVO 3...
Todd
Todd
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