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Fixing up a 2G 6 Bolt Swap

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TSIAWD97

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I recently bought a 2G Talon that has had a six bolt swapped in then quit running not long after. I found out after thinking at first the timing wasn't off that it actually was. The crank sprocket bolt must have been left loose by whoever assembled the engine allowing the crank timing gear and pulley to back off the crank to the end of the crank key and it started to turn on the shaft. :eek:

I pulled the pulley and gear, cleaned up the gear and put it back on(all the way on)straight, retimed and put the pulley back on. To my surprise it still runs and idles even though I did not hook up any of the accessories back up yet. Now I have a squeeling noise that after some searching I found out could be the timing belt pulleys. I plan to replace the timing belt, both pulleys, and tensioner with Mitsubishi OEM parts through Extreme PSI with their package deal since the "builder" also managed to put a long bolt in the oil pan where the bottom of the t-belt is and it started cutting into it. Its also leaking oil horribly out of the oil pan so I will reseal that as well.

Now that everyone knows my disposition here are my questions:

1.The car still runs so is it possible that it didn't bend the valves at all? The crank pulley arrow had to be off close to an inch or so clockwise but it seems to run alright. Cam marks were still lined up. I just don't believe it.

2.Am I on the right track on the timing belt pulleys being the squeeling? It is possible I overtightened the tensioner pulley, or so I have read(like 2 ft/lbs??)but like I said I plan to replace parts soon and I am not daily driving the car right now. I also plan to purchase the full tool kit for the t-belt install.

3.Oil Pan Gasket or Right Stuff/Gasket Maker or both?

4. Since the quality of work done to the engine makes me wonder about the balance shaft removal that appears to be done, can I check with a screwdriver through the rear balance shaft bolt/plug hole to see if there is a rear shaft left in there? As I understand it the rear must be replaced with a stubby shaft since it is driven off the oil pump gear and something with the oil pressure and the front can be left in completely so I don't have to worry if that is in there or not?

5.If there is no rear shaft then as long as the oil pump gear arrow lines up with its timing mark it no longer has to be in "phase" because of no balance shafts correct?

Sorry for the long post, I think I covered most of my questions that searching couldn't find me already answered. Thanks for the help!
 
#2 · (Edited)
If the gear slid off the snout of the crank then it's possible the engine never went out of time, it just spun without moving the cams. If that's the case go buy a lotto ticket because you just avoided every DSMer's nightmare through pure luck :D. You could run a compression test and leak down test in order to verify that the valves have not been bent. But if it runs good, it's likely they are fine.

Usually squealing comes from the accessory belts, I've never heard a timing belt pulley squeal. However, your on the right track of replacing all the pulleys and the belt with OEM parts. You could replace the accesory belts and tensioner while your there and I'll bet the noise goes away.

I wouldn't use a cork gasket on the oil pan, use just gasket maker. I use RTV Black, some suggest GM brand sealer or Hondabond, so that's up to you.

If there is a shaft left in the front there will be a sprocket on the front case still. If not there will be a little rubber cap in the place of the sprocket. There isn't any problem with leaving the front shaft in since it blocks the oil galleys. Without the front shaft, block off bearings, or at least the bearings flipped 180*, there would be a huge loss in oil pressure. So it would be best to check and at least make sure something is in there. To check for the rear just do as you said and use the plug hole to check for one. On a side note, you might want make sure the front case/oil pump are OEM. If it is Topline or no-brand you could consider replacing it while you're in there.

Without the rear shaft there is no reason to even get the mark lined up let alone make sure it's clocked correctly. So yes, you're correct.
 
#3 ·
Buy the oem parts and follow the installation instructions to the LETTER and you should do just fine! I prefer the Yamabond sealer on the pan.
 
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#4 ·
Like Wes said, if the belt never actually came off of the pulley and never popped off anywhere, you should be good to go. Worst case, maybe you bent a couple valves, depending on where the cams were positioned when everything stopped turning. This should be determined before you tear into the motor, IMO.

For the squealing sound... when you're pulling everything apart check for metal on metal, or anything on timing cover.
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
The belt stayed on the crank timing pulley but the pulley got just past the moon key and started to turn on the crank with the belt on it. The car still turned over and would sometimes start then quit from 10 seconds to a minute after it was started. I am glad I figured it out when I did and didn't continue to look for a problem that wasn't there when the timing was off.

Also there is currently no accesories hooked up(bought the alt belt that got torn up in the deal today)and the timing covers are all off leaving just the tensioner pulley or idler pulley to do the squeeling since I dont THINK it could be internal. I do plan on buying a new timing cover because it is so broken up its likely to lose a piece in the belt rather than protect it and like I said I am not daily driving it until it is fixed right. Am I right in thinking a 2g lower cover wont work on it?

Thanks for the help so far. I will be doing some more work to it when I get home tonight!
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
That makes a lot of sense why the timing cover didn't come off well. I broke some of it out around the cam gear/mount area because I know I have to get a new one anyways. It's trashed at the bottom.

I thought I saw a 1G lower belt cover somewhere for $90 or so but for the difference in price and what I have read of Extreme PSI on here I will probably just go through them. Thanks for clearing me up on the cover fitment as well.
 
#8 ·
No worries, just glad to be able to help. ExtremePSI is definitely a pretty good vendor, that's who I usually go to for parts since they're so close. They're only in PA and shipping arrives (to NJ and probably NY too) the next day when they ship via UPS Ground which is a big help when you need parts quick.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Well I have the car somewhere I can work on it inside now. I figured out I need to order $475-500 worth of parts. That will cover the OEM timing belt kit, 1G timing cover and bolts, dipstick(mines broken) and the three timing tools extreme psi sells to do the job. Too bad I do not have any cash currently. :(

That being said, I am hoping to find out tomorrow if my oil leak is just coming from the line on the oil filter housing blowing back or if the oil pan is leaking too. Probably both my luck. I am just hoping the line isn't cross threaded into the housing or something. It looks like it is just brake line? Probably not factory or the right threads. I am guessing this will keep me busy for now while I am waiting to come up with parts money. :eek:
 
#10 ·
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Got my pan off yesterday and I didn't like what I saw. My balance shafts are gone, at least mostly. The front one is out but the plug for the hole isn't like any I have seen before. For the real nice part the rear looks like it was just cut down to about the size of a stubby shaft and had a bolt put in it to keep the oil pressure.:eek: I have pics of them but I can't figure out how to upload them from my iphone so I will have to wait until I get home and figure it out. Also the oil pan is about shot now that I pryed it off half way or better around before it "popped" off. I swear the idiot must have jb welded it to the block. Now it is cracked at the flange on the transmission end. I could weld it but it probably wont seal worth anything since it got so bent up. I guess I can look for a used one but I dont know where. Man I wish I had access to the classifieds. :(
 
#12 ·
For now you could try Dsmsource, classifieds. In the meantime you should check the oil pump itself for damage, and make sure its not a Topline brand pump, you want an OEM pump only, the OEM pump is made by Aisin.
 
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Discussion starter · #13 · (Edited)
Just an update and all of the newest issues. I have seen enough loose, stripped, wrongly placed, and just plain missing bolts on this car than I have in the rest of my life put together.

I did end up welding the oil pan and resealing it with no leaks from the pan only to find that the majority of my oil leak is coming from the oil pump shaft/balance shaft castle plug area. If this isn't good enough I removed the plug to find the "stubby shaft"(aka cut off rear balance shaft with a two inch to long bolt in the end of it)bolt came loose and let it fall into the oil pan. True Story.

It appears to me to be a ITM oil pump. Before I go any farther I will say if I had the cash I would buy an OEM oil pump at this point. I don't feel like I can blame anything on the oil pump yet because the timing gear was coming off the crank(Start of this topic)putting alot of stress on the oil pump gear possibly causing an oil leak I would guess. I have it off in my kitchen and it feels like there is no play in the oil pump shaft. Also I swear the castle plug gasket was missing. I did not see it when I took the plug out but I did not realize where it went at first either I took it off on the car on a hoist though. It would not surprise me at all at this point.:dunno:

Where I thought I had some sort of plug for the front shaft I have the same as whats going on for the rear. A cut off piece of shaft in the hole I am guessing held by JB weld or something along those lines keeping it solid to the bearing.

Here is where I stand currently until I find more problems... If it is possible(same geometry)I want to put new OEM Mitsu crank and oil pump shaft seals in my oil pump along as purchase a balance shaft eliminator kit. I want to pound out the front mess hopefully not messing up the block, pretty sure whatever is holding the shaft and bearing to the block isn't much, and put in the new bearing 90 degrees to block oil passages. Install the rear stubby shaft with a new bolt and locktite and reinstall the pump. One question here, does any sealant go between the gear case sections of the pump where the rear shaft goes in?

I know I am forgetting alot but just wanted to make sure I am still on track here. Thanks for the help everyone!
 
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