So here's the issue I'm having..... I can drive my talon at half throttle and she'll get up and move just fine and get to 17 lbs of boost without a problem. But when I punch it, she'll kick out black smoke at 17lbs of boost and you can hear a pop from the tail pipe. The timing is dead on, I just had it fixed, it's got new NGK plugs in it gap at .025. It idels just fine and no misfire, but the only problem is the WOT black smoke, what could be causing this?
Black smoke at WOT
talon_91
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So here's the issue I'm having..... I can drive my talon at half throttle and she'll get up and move just fine and get to 17 lbs of boost without a problem. But when I punch it, she'll kick out black smoke at 17lbs of boost and you can hear a pop from the tail pipe. The timing is dead on, I just had it fixed, it's got new NGK plugs in it gap at .025. It idels just fine and no misfire, but the only problem is the WOT black smoke, what could be causing this?
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614 Posts
I guess you would have to remove it, and inspect it from there, sometimes they get full of carbon, but I dont know if that could cause your problem. But knowing without removing it I dont know either.
Is it only at WOT or is it at idle sometimes?
To anyone else, could a wrong ignition timing from his cas cause this problem too?
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1,371 Posts
More fuel basically. Are you running the stock 14b or 16g? I can't tell from your pic. As bare minimum I would suggest 650cc injectors, a Walbro 190, a tuning device (such as SAFC, DSMLink, or Ostrich), and a wideband of course. That would probably get you into the 20-25psi range depending on your setup. You would also need to look into a better intercooler if you are still on the stock sidemount. Here is a good link to check out:
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197035
In the meantime, I would suggest keeping the boost around 10psi until you get the upgrades. 6-bolts are very tough engines, but you don't want to take that chance.
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197035
In the meantime, I would suggest keeping the boost around 10psi until you get the upgrades. 6-bolts are very tough engines, but you don't want to take that chance.
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918 Posts
You need to upgrade your injectors at the very least as well as install something to tune and monitor with. Boost gauge, wideband, logger...
The cheapest way to go is 550-680 injectors (ease of tuning), afc to tune with, and a wideband to note your a/f ratio and make adjustments. Also, you'll want to rewire your fuel pump with 10ga wire to help get that extra fuel to the rail.
If you search for upgrade paths, you'll find some sure ways to safely make more power, but most people want the cheap speed. Look up cyclone intake. That's a pretty good way to wake up a smaller turbo'd engine.
Edit: Wes beat me to it... but yeah, 14b can be a fun turbo.
The cheapest way to go is 550-680 injectors (ease of tuning), afc to tune with, and a wideband to note your a/f ratio and make adjustments. Also, you'll want to rewire your fuel pump with 10ga wire to help get that extra fuel to the rail.
If you search for upgrade paths, you'll find some sure ways to safely make more power, but most people want the cheap speed. Look up cyclone intake. That's a pretty good way to wake up a smaller turbo'd engine.
Edit: Wes beat me to it... but yeah, 14b can be a fun turbo.
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321 Posts
It's a 16g, I have a boost gauge and walbro 250 fuel pump I belive. But from what I'm being told, if it's less than 100 dollars its not a true walbro and yes I did pay less than 100. And yes I still have a stock intercooler. But I do work at an autoparts store, so I'll do some catalog searching to see what I can get thats the best, but for cheap..... not cheap parts.
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1,338 Posts
^^^ This
Installing a AFPR will more than likely solve your black smoke issue. Also turn down your boost like mentioned. 14-15 psi would be pushing the limits of a stock fuel system and a 16g and no tune. I would bet the only reason you haven't blown the engine yet is because your 255 is over running the FPR causing you to run rich.
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614 Posts
ok. doing my research what is mentioned above is true. anything over 15psi and you will be getting fuel cut on a stock ecu. (max airflow the stock ecu and handle)
Yes get a MBC/EBC, without either of those, I dont think you will be able to go WOT, without having something stop the turbo from overboosting.
IMO, stay on stock injectors, until your able to get a tuner, and a FPR. Without those 2, I see you running wayyy to rich and possibly have your car running like crap for the excessive fuel delivery.
Yes get a MBC/EBC, without either of those, I dont think you will be able to go WOT, without having something stop the turbo from overboosting.
IMO, stay on stock injectors, until your able to get a tuner, and a FPR. Without those 2, I see you running wayyy to rich and possibly have your car running like crap for the excessive fuel delivery.
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1,937 Posts
Ok here is the jist all in one post. You are running waaaay to much boost for stock injectors, but since you have a 255lph pump on there your stock fpr is being overrun and is not able to hold back all that fuel at the correct pressure. Therefore you are running too rich. Yes an AFPR will lean you out but if you do that you will without a doubt blow your engine. You have put the cart before the horse and skipped way ahead on upgrading. Turn the boost down now and research how to do things the correct way or you will be posting a thread on how to remove and rebuild your engine very soon.
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I'm honestly very surprised he can even hit 17 PSI on what I'm assuming is a stock 1g MAF. 17 PSI is said to be the limit on the 2g maf's and I know 1g maf's flow a lot less than the 2g's. I put my 16g on my 2g not knowing it had a 17lb spring in it, experienced fuel cut once, ordered link and injectors the next day. Mind you I had done all fuel mods besides the bigger injectors previously.
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321 Posts
Not only have I hit 17psi befor, but I've also hit 22 psi as well. But since it being an Auto, I turned it down to 17 so I wouldn't blow out the tranny. But I did turn the boost down again to 12. Yes it is a stock 1g MAF. I don't know if it would matter or not, but I did take out the honey comb in the sensor along time ago. But what would you guys recommand for an AFPR, I don't want something that I would have to cut and modify my fuel rail, like I've read about?
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1,937 Posts
If you are going to run anything other than the stock wastegate pressure you need a wideband as well. That is at the very least. You really need to realize you can't just throw an AFPR on and call it good. Do you even know what pressure you need to regulate it down to?
Doing things like just cranking the boost up with no way to monitor knock and afr is the reason these cars got such a bad rap for reliability.
Doing things like just cranking the boost up with no way to monitor knock and afr is the reason these cars got such a bad rap for reliability.
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