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No oil going into rear caliper !?

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DSM4LIFE-AWD

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys I'm trying to bleed my brakes and my pedal is stiff as hell, both front brakes works but not the rear one !? No oil is going into the rear caliper, bleeders are unscrew and my pedal is still stiff and front brakes are working !?

Wtf have I done wrong ? Hose on the master near the fire wall is going into the prop valve front passenger side, hose on master near intake is in driver front driver ports ... Front caliper from the buttom side ports on the valve and rear on the upper ports on each side.

Help please
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
I just unscrew the rear line before my ss lines at the rear wheels and still no oil going there ? Pedal is still stiff and front brakes working ! I'll try to unscrew one of the rear line at the prop valve and we'll see if oil is going into the lines ... Don't know what else to try ...
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Edit: From this site my lines from the master to the valve are the opposite ? I'm still looking into my manual and it's the opposite of this site ? F**K http://codsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3358

I'll try to unscrew one of the rear line right at the valve and see if something goes out ... Damn oil ...
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I'm all alone and can't really do shit ! Now I think my brake master isn't working, don't really want to unscrew both feed line from the valve and test them one at the time while I'm alone. I'll give it a try tomorow with someone ... Fuck, nothing can be easy ... Feels like I won't be able to roll before winter comes in :(
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Red1991TSI said:
Yeah I agree it's best to have someone push the pedal as you're examining the issue. I don't like stray brake fluid squirting everywhere.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the support Red :)

I think my master isn't working right, like if there was no oil coming out of the secondary port. Pretty sure the primary port is for the front brakes ...
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Sean485 said:
Has the car been run recently? Sometimes I've seen vehicles where the front brakes will work without booster power but the rear brakes will not.
Click to expand...
No car hasn't run since last summer my friend ... Should I try to start the car before replacing the brake master ?
 
#12 ·
I don't really have a good answer for you unfortunately as I don't really know why the car was doing it. I know some cars have a kind of safety blockoff in the distribution valve so I don't know if that had something to do with it or what. The master failure is 99% of the time leaking back through the bore, I can't say i've ever heard of a master failing where one set of brakes worked but not the other.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Pretty sure there's no check valve or things like that in the prop valve because I remember cleaning it and passing air into it. I remember it's only some kind of "T" to make it simple.

I've search yeasterday and I found that the master could be the probleme, we don't have 2 hoses comings out of it for fun. One is primary port, one is secondary port (that one is near the booster). Looks like there's no oil coming out of the secondary port. That master is new but it's not an OEM one. Didn't wanted to spend the big buck because I want to run a 3g one in the future. I even check the clearance and tolerance before putting it on to be sure that it match the booster, just like in the manual.

I have to admit I didn't bench bleed it before installing it, maybe I would have seen something ...
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
I just talked with my machinist at the shop who built cars for years and he think it could be the rod from my booster that is pushing on the brake master piston. If it push too much on the piston well the secondary port will never get feed with oil !

Do you see where this is going ? Before replacing the master I'll try to unscrew the rod on the booster just a bit. I tryed to mesure everything when I installed it but it's hard to mesure in a round hole ...

Image
 
Discussion starter · #15 · (Edited)
Sean485 said:
Has the car been run recently? Sometimes I've seen vehicles where the front brakes will work without booster power but the rear brakes will not.
Click to expand...
I think you could be right my friend, I'm still reading and I now know why it could have work when the engine is running. In a manual I'm ready it cleary say:

Make the adjustment with the engine running to ensure the booster
has vacuum. The booster body will change shape when a vacuum is
applied and may reduce the clearance for rod adjustment.

This information come from http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake05.pdf on page 17 ...

Damn I never tough it would be that hard ... I guess this car will teach me something new every time I work on it ...
Got to love DSM ...

You know all this crap that is happening is just making me want to run a Buschur kit and delete the booster haha ;)
 
Discussion starter · #16 · (Edited)
Ok since I'm not ready to start the car to test that sh*t I just ordered a hand vacuum pump. With that tool I'll be able to put 18-21 Hg of vacuum on the booster just like if the car was running on idle. I than will be able to mesure or adjust the rod if the master still isn't pushing oil ...

Got to start somewhere ...

A kit just like this, cost me 45$ and I'll have it in my hand this afternoon
Image
 
#17 ·
I 'd rather use a bleeder such as the Motive (if it still on the market edit:yes it is, see below) to pressurize the brake fluid at the reservoir. That way you would accomplish a) not needing another person to operate the brake pedal b) test (and bleed) the braking system regardless of the brake booster.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/frame-bleeders.htm

Image


Does that kit also build positive pressure other than just vacuum? I bought one a while ago to pressure test something and I can't remember what for the life of me!
 
Discussion starter · #18 · (Edited)
Nop, from the gauge on it, it only reads vacuum. I'll see what my seller have to propose me first and let you know but I'm pretty sure the model I posted is only for vacuum.

I have Russel speed bleeder everywhere (caliper and clutch slave) so bleeding my brakes alone should not be a probleme when all the lines are connected haha ;)

I have a couple idea to test, I also have an other master on the 94 talon ...
 
#19 ·
DSM4LIFE-AWD said:
Nop, from the gauge on it, it only reads vacuum. I'll see what my seller have to propose me first and let you know but I'm pretty sure the model I posted is only for vacuum.

I have Russel speed bleeder everywhere (caliper and clutch slave) so bleeding my brakes alone should not be a probleme when all the lines are connected haha ;)

I have a couple idea to test, I also have an other master on the 94 talon ...
Click to expand...
Well, the idea is to pressurize the master cylinder without having to depress the brake pedal. The speed bleeder do help a lot, but you're not going to be able and check when the fluid comes out clean and without bubbles especially on the passenger side if you also have to kick the brake pedal.
 
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