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1990 eagle talon Awd no spark

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doebelj1

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Have searched quite a bit for a solution to this problem but I can't seem to find one anywhere. I recently rebuilt my engine for my 90 talon tsi. New pistons, new connect rods, new valves, the whole nine yards went in. The whole project has been about a year in the making. After finally getting everything together and everything in their respective places, I stuck the key and turned her. She cranked but didn't start. No spark. The spark plug wires are in the right places, 4 1 2 3. I rotated the CAS 180* to see if that was misaligned, still nothing. Pulled the coil pack. Primary resistance and secondary were good. Pulled the transistor, that was good. Stuck now.

From what I understand the next thing down the line is the ECU. The car ran fine before it went too lean and snapped a valve. The belt jumped and thus caused the need for fixing. The car itself has an aftermarket greddy turbo, warlboro fuel pump, rc lucas 550cc injectors, aftermarket header. It also appears to have a few vacuum line removals and no egr valve. It also appears the fuel pressure solenoid on the firewall is gone, and a few plugs appear to go to nothing. However all these removals were done the car ran great before. Now I can't figure out why it has no spark. The plugs have sat for a year, but appear alright, and wouldn't imagine they would solely cause a no spark issue. I'm pretty stuck at this point, any ideas?
 
#2 ·
Power from the ign. switch on the black/white wire to the coil?
Back probe the yellow/black or yellow/white with a test light connected to ground under spark conditions the light should flash. (other words the circuit needs to be complete to test in this manner)

If not you have a transistor, CAS,wiring or ECU problem.

You should be able to pull the CAS & spin it by hand & get spark key on.

I had a 90 before that gave me issues with the transistor connector.
Not an easy fix on that one either due to 90's being only year for that particular connector configuration.
 
#3 ·
You have confirmed that you are not getting spark from the wire using the screw driver test? If you aren't, work your way back. I had a bad ECU do this to me once. I pulled the ECU, opened it, and saw the capacitors all blown up and bulging. Also smelled fishy.

-Scott
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the replies guys!
I'm really hoping it's not the ECU, but I just pulled out the CAS to test it. I pulled the number one spark plug and grounded it on the block. I put the key to run, didn't try to crank it, and then spun the CAS by hand (clockwise if it makes a difference). I heard the fuel pump turn on and fuel rushing to the rail (probably flooding it). There wasn't any spark. I tried grounding it on the engine mount as well to make sure, and still the same thing, no spark. Am I doing this test wrong or does that mean my CAS is bad?
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Alright, quick update on this. First, I quickly realized you can't flood the rail or pistons. Second, the reason I got no spark when rotating the CAS was because I didn't have the coil pack or transistor plugged back in after I tested them. Doink! I tried the test again with the number 3 and number 1 plugs removed and grounded. I spun the CAS once, saw spark on number 3 and then heard something pop and smoke started coming off the top of a ground located above where the butterfly valve is. I didn't get a chance to see if the number 1 went off because the pop startled me.

Considering this was a full rebuild I didn't put any coolant in the car in case I needed to tear something back down. I also have don't have two of the plugs that run in the thermostat plugged in. I have the one plugged into the o2 sensor that runs to the the turbo, and the plug that runs to the top of the thermostat, but the are 3 wires (2 appear to be grounds, 1 is positive) that aren't connected to anything. Will this make a difference as to whether the car starts or not?
 
#7 ·
Yes if your referring to the coolant temperature sensor on the water outlet housing, it needs it for an accurate temperature reading.
Pretty important on a cold start.

This being a fresh build, with all that raw fuel from testing. Also cranking without a coolant temp connected, I would want to dry those cylinders out.
(no coolant temp connected would be a -44 or something like that reading to the ECU & the addition of tons of fuel )
Maybe oil the cylinders up again too.

Not a good thing to wash the rings down during a break-in.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Well I cut and spliced a few wires, hooked up the coolant temp sensor and sure enough, she fired right up. It ran great for about 10 seconds and then just died. I tried to start it up again and there was a real loud grinding sound. Then it sounded like something let loose. Cranked it one more time and it would turn over, slowly, but wouldn't start. I looked under the car and there was a nice size puddle of oil. I thought it may have been just from the oil filter, so I replaced it, refilled the car with oil and tried again. Still no start. I'm going to check for fuel and spark tonight, but I'm wondering, could something internal have let loose and I'm looking at further engine damage?
 
#9 ·
Anything is possible, but don't freak out yet. Did you prime the oil pump with grease? Or at least crank the motor over without the spark plugs in and the fuel system off? You want to check first and make sure oil is circulating correctly, especially to the head since its the last place to get it. I pull the valve cover off and crank it over, if oil pressure is good you will see it coating everything, and if it starts it will throw oil everywhere...be careful. Also figure out where the oil leak is!!!! How slow is it cranking over? Hopefully some others can give you more insight today
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Well I checked for spark afterwards and it seemed to be coming intermittently. But it was back firing out of the air filter when cranking. So I tore back down the timing belt and found that the cams were aligned when the number 1 piston was all the down. Not good. Had a heck of a time realigning the timing and after 5 attempts the best I could get was everything lined up except the oil pump was off about a half a notch. Against my best efforts everything just kept rotating one way or another and throwing it all out of whack. I put it all back together and tried to start it and it fired up great. It was running for about 30 seconds when I noticed a giant oil puddle under the car again. I did some investigating and found it pouring, and I mean pouring, out of the bottom right hand corner on the front of the engine. It was coming from underneath the timing belt cover. I don't entirely want to tear back down the timing belt, but it doesn't look like I have much of an option. I've seen from some other posts it could be the balance shaft tensioner bolt.
 
#12 ·
doebelj1 said:
So I tore back down the timing belt and found that the cams were aligned when the number 1 piston was all the down. Not good. Had a heck of a time realigning the timing and after 5 attempts the best I could get was everything lined up except the oil pump was off about a half a notch.
Click to expand...
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's not good. You may have bent a valve in your head. I don't know what could happen from the oil pump not being timed correctly, but could very well have to do with the source of your oil pouring out.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
dsmjunkie1 said:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's not good. You may have bent a valve in your head. I don't know what could happen from the oil pump not being timed correctly, but could very well have to do with the source of your oil pouring out.
Click to expand...
The car still fires right up and idles great. It's just dumping oil out of whatever spot that may be. If I bent a valve, wouldn't the car run poorly, or not start at all?
 
#15 ·
I would get that belt off and fix the issue. If that belt gets oil soaked, your sol.

Before you remove the belt, set it at tdc. Get a paint pen handy, or a white out pen. Then mark 12 o'clock on both cam gears and the belt. Then mark the crank sprocket and the belt. I personally go from a tooth, straight out, as if you have a ruler from the center of the gear/pulley, to the spot your marking.

This should help greatly, in getting the belt lined back up. Also make sure when you compress the tensioner, you do it correctly. If you don't know how, look it up or ask.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
BISHILVR said:
It could be the balancer shaft tensioner bolt. It could be a seal that popped out also.
Click to expand...
I wondered about both. Thank you.

nettslash said:
I would get that belt off and fix the issue. If that belt gets oil soaked, your sol.

Before you remove the belt, set it at tdc. Get a paint pen handy, or a white out pen. Then mark 12 o'clock on both cam gears and the belt. Then mark the crank sprocket and the belt. I personally go from a tooth, straight out, as if you have a ruler from the center of the gear/pulley, to the spot your marking.

This should help greatly, in getting the belt lined back up. Also make sure when you compress the tensioner, you do it correctly. If you don't know how, look it up or ask.
Click to expand...
Oh I've torn down and put back together the belt about half a dozen times. It used to take me 3 weeks, now it might take me 3 hours. The power of doing things that frustrate the crap out of you! So I shouldn't have any trouble there. Except with the overall alignment. For whatever reason the car just doesn't like to have all timing marks perfectly aligned.

The belt itself has a nice little coating on it right now. I ran the car for about 30 seconds when it was getting hit with oil and the belt itself is brand new so I'd prefer not to replace it if at all possible. But I would understand if I needed to. It's been sitting for a couple of days with the oil on it. I didn't really think about it but it might start soaking in and loosen it up. Could the belt still be useable?
 
#17 ·
If you decide to clean the belt, don't use any solvents like brake cleaner, just use dish soap and water, that shouldnt do any damage to the belt itself. That or you can try power washing it, but ultimately some of the oil soaks into the material and never comes out. I would think it will shorten the overall life span of the belt, but hell, who hasn't had oil leak on a belt? My theory anymore is that if it isn't leaking somewhere on these cars something is wrong! About your problem getting everything to line up, I have trouble almost every time, I got the best results last time by lining the exhaust cam up just a few degrees towards the intake side, making everything else perfect and tightening the bolt down, then after releasing the tensioner it pulled the cam back to the correct position without moving the intake and oil pump side.
 
#18 ·
By towards the intake side I meant clockwise, so the line is a few degrees lower than the intake side. And did you check to see if the oil pump was on the right spin? It has a weird gear ratio, so if you point it straight up and let go it should fall left toward the crank, if it doesn't, spin it over and try again
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Well hopefully someone can use this as a reference. I tore down the timing belt and found the balance shaft tensioner bolt to be loose. It was tight enough to hold the tensioner on but loose enough I got a few turns out of it. I didn't see any seals out of whack. Hooked up the battery and fired the car without the pulleys to see if it leaked any oil. The leaking had stopped. However, I forgot to put the crank shaft bolt back in and the crank shaft pulley walked. The timing belt locked up and when I readjusted and fired again I had knock and she sputtered like crazy. I bent valves. This close to a successful rebuild. Whats the likelihood of me damaging the pistons? They're brand new and I only ran the car for about 5 seconds.
 
#20 ·
The pistons usually survive. Without the crankshaft pulley bolt yes your timing belt can get trashed, there is no reason to remove that bolt if your just pulling the cover all you have to do is remove the four 10mm bolts on the pulley and then pop it off.
 
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doebelj1
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