DSMTalk Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

Car running TOO hot ... Gates 170 thermostat ????

Jump to Latest
41 - 60 of 70 Posts
Discussion starter · #42 ·
That's a great question ... one that I have been pondering myself ...

A few weeks back when this first happened I figured I tear it all down and go with the Mitsu MLS ... but then I was doing hours of research on here and Tuners and found a lot of threads where guys had problems with them getting to adhere and varying opinions on copper spray or not. Then, I also read that the MLS is really only needed for high-high horsepower. Last I had my car dyno'd (2 years ago) I put down 305 on 22lbs. Since then I've made a few subtle changes, but nothing drastic. My best "realistic" guess is 325 at this point. All that to say, I was kinda left with the impression after doing my homework the Mitsu composite would be just fine for my setup. I've never ran anything other than the OEM composite, so I'm open to suggests, opinions, and other brands as well on this subject.
 
#43 ·
I'll tell you this. Headgasket life is tuner dependent. I am on 31psi on a HTA3076 on pump 93 on a OEM composite with nothing but standard ARP's headstuds making 400whp through an Automatic on a Mustang Dyno. I beat the shit out of it also. I tune it myself.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Other than my initial install/setup just to make the car drivable, I've never tuned myself. I've always paid to have it professionally done at R/T tuning - local to PA here. I've always had the same guy tune it as well. I've never had a HG problem, and I'm not convinced this current problem is related to the HG either - even though I initially thought it was.

But, you're basically supporting the research I've done. Not really sure the MLS is necessary for me. I am also running standard ARP's.
 
#47 ·
techboy said:
Other than my initial install/setup just to make the car drivable, I've never tuned myself. I've always paid to have it professionally done at R/T tuning - local to PA here. I've always had the same guy tune it as well. I've never had a HG problem, and I'm not convinced this current problem is related to the HG either - even though I initially thought it was.

But, you're basically supporting the research I've done. Not really sure the MLS is necessary for me. I am also running standard ARP's.
Click to expand...
R/T tuning as in R/T Ernie? If so then you should be in good hands.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
Next Update - the current machine shop I have the head at refuses to do a pressure test on the head w/ it assembled. They want to take the thing apart and charge me the labor. I called the machine shop that actually built this head for me (a little further drive) and they're willing to test it assembled. So, I'm picking the head up tomorrow and taking it to the other shop. After the pressure test I should actually be able to figure some things out and move forward again.
 
Discussion starter · #50 ·
Machine Shop called ... head has been pressure checked and checked for level (again) - everything is fine. So, I guess I'll order up a HG and put this thing all back together and see what happens ....
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
Update (again) ... Like I said above, machine shop pressure checked the head at 40psi and checked for level. No cracks and said it was perfectly straight. So, I ordered a composite HG (based on the conversation we had in this thread) from Extreme and dropped the head back on this weekend. ARP's torqued to 90 ft/lbs. I'm in the process of doing a bunch of other things to the car as well, so it'll be a little bit yet before she's ready to fire back up, but I'm hoping to have a final update on this overheating "situation" for you guys before Christmas.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
Ok, so, there's a ton of text in this thread ... I figured I'd toss some pics up so you guys that have been following this saga can see where I'm at:

Here's the head immediately after I removed it b/f going to the machine shop:
Image


Here's the head when I go it back the other week:
Image


I decided now would be a good time to throw on a fresh coat of paint:
Image


Putting the cams back in. I like to use Brad Penn heavy weight motor oil as assembly lube, hence the greenish tint as I was building:
Image


Cams back in (stockers):
Image


Fuel rail and manifold bolted back up:
Image


Deck cleaned up and ready for new HG:
Image


Here's the head bolted back on:
Image


And ... after bolting a few other odds and end back up here's where I left off:
Image


So, that's how I spent the few days I had off over Thanksgiving. I think I'm gonna take a day off work next week and plug away some more on it.
 
#56 ·
Good clean up!!

Personally, it sounds like you did a bunch of work that may not have needed done.

Untill you could get an actually temp reading, you have no clue if you are hot or not., Have you even thought that the gauge or sender may have started to fail?

Do you know what the boil over point is on the system?


I am glad you went composite HG tho... I cringed a touch when I saw the swirls from the rol-loc you used to clean the HG surface of the block.

Now some basic math on boil point/over heating temps.

This math is for systems at sea level, you may need a correction factor for your altitude and/or additives.

Water boils at 212*

Now for every pound of pressure the cooling system holds add *3 to boil point

The stock Mitsu rad cap holds 13psi

So 13lbs X 3* = 39* over boil point

212*+39*=251*

So untill you have a gauge that will give you a temp number, it is all a guess.

I would recommend that you pull and inspect your gauge sender, if it has deposit build up it may give inaccurate readings to the gauge.

Other things to keep in mind, If your tune is leaning out, you create more heat so that is more heat the cooling system has to deal with.

If your rad is not well sealed to the core support, or the fans not sealed to the rad, you will run warmer. Air follows the path of least restriction,
Force the air flow through the rad, not around it.

Once you have it all bolted back together, do a coolant pressure test to check for leaks.

You may have a weep in the heater core that is leaking pressure of the coolant system.
 
#57 ·
drawdown and deaeration,

Air in the system will cause lots of problems, its a big deal. I know it sounds silly but air isn't as easy to remove as you would think from a non-positive deaeration system such as you have there.

Also the radiator cap plays a huge role in the function of the cooling system, just like bogus said above me a pressurized system is able to keep the coolant from boiling until a much higher temp.

Either one of the above mentioned things can lead to cavitation. cavitation in a coolant system is extremely bad.

Those are just a couple things outside the obvious of shroud design, etc.
 
Discussion starter · #58 · (Edited)
I got the car all back together and ready to go. Problem is, when I try to start it, it runs for about 5 seconds and shuts down. It's nice and smooth for those 5 seconds, but it just cuts out. My logger is showing a code for a CAS. So I just ordered a new one. I noticed when I had the motor apart the plastic housing for that thing was cracked and there was "movement" - so I wasn't surprised when that was the code that popped up.

So, needless to say, I haven't been able to run the car long enough to see if I've fixed my problem. Still TBD.

Bogus - to address a few things you discussed. I replaced the CTS, gauge sender, and rad cap before I ever even posted the thread up. So I already had eliminated those possibilities and was on to the thermostat - which also ended up not being the the problem. Short of doing an overnight pressure test, which I did not do, I'm not sure what else I would have done different. Even if I did a pressure test and lost pressure (which I'm sure it would have) it may not have necessarily helped me pinpoint the location of my problem. I have to disagree with you - I don't think anything I did was unnecessary. I've got somewhere north of $800 into machining of the head - I was very concerned about it being warped or cracked. So sending it off for a level check and pressure test gives me peace of mind knowing I explored all possibilities. I will say good thought on the tune - although my last tune was pretty extensive and only done 2 years ago. I haven't changed anything since then and the car has probably only seen 2000 milies since the tune. I highly doubt tune is the issue, but it'd be something to explore if I continue to have this issue after the fact, along with a pressure test.

MY THEORY - As lazylaser mentioned I really think I was starting to get air in the system and thus cavitation. The right hand side (drivers) of my HG did not have a good impression on it like the rest of the gasket did. I believe b/c the motor overheated the season before when the rad cap went bad I got some head scrub, and, because I don't drive the car a whole lot the aftermath of that incident didn't catch up with me till end of this season. Hopefully in a few days we'll see.

Oh, and thanks for the compliments on the clean up. I didn't have anything else to do while everything was out being checked ... so why not clean.
 
Discussion starter · #59 ·
My CAS showed up today. Installed and car fired right up. Problem now is I have an electrical gremlin I posted up about in the electrical section that is making my battery voltage way too high. (which is dangerous) So, I haven't been able to run the car long enough to burp it and take it for a spin.

Oh the joys ....
 
Discussion starter · #60 ·
Posting up to say the car is finally done. All the little kinks have been worked out. It's not leaking anything, I'm getting proper voltages at the battery and all that. So, I let the car run for about 1/2 hour. While it was running I adjusted the idle a bit since installing a 97 manifold, a 1G TB and eliminating the FIAV. I burped the system and made sure my new fan setup was working properly (wow do those things move some air). Afterward I took it for a quick spin ... boy did it feel good to be driving the car again ... anyway, I didn't go far b/c PA roads are pretty crappy this time of year and full of salt, but I did head out to the highway. I pulled roughly 20lbs of boost in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, the temp gauge never moved. Remained just below 1/2 right where it used to sit. It's a very cold day, here so I'm not declaring it "fixed", but I'm pretty confident the overheating issue has been solved. I pulled the car back in the garage pulled off the VC and re-torqued the ARP headstuds back to 90lbs. I was amazed at how many of them needed to be brought back up to torque spec after one warm up. But that's the point in checking it and will hopefully avoid future head gasket issues. Once summer rolls around I'll post back up with the final word. In the meantime, thanks for your thoughts along the way.
 
41 - 60 of 70 Posts
About this Discussion
69 Replies
14 Participants
Last post:
techboy
DSMTalk Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum
posts
2.3M
members
104K
Since
2000
A forum community dedicated to Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser and Eagle Talon owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, turbos, builds, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General DSM Tech and Tuning Help! Tech Newbie Questions Forum Body Tech and Appearance Electronics Tech