Variable Propane Installed!

import power on · Jul 6, 2002

Just another note, I can now run 15-17psi on 91 octane in 100+ temps (up to 150 under hood) with NO KNOCK. Period. It's only at 19-20psi it creeps in a tad but Propane knocks it down quick!

russthelm · Jul 7, 2002

How is this newer cheaper system variable?
I want a system that you can adjust both the activation and the slope (m and b or y= mx+b).
According to your drawing it looks like a static system like my water injection is?
Can it be controlled by a standalone computer (pulse width)?

Are you selling the old one you just ripped out?

QKRTHNU · Jul 7, 2002

Hey IPO.

Why is it that a N2O Solenoid won't work for the LPG? I don't see what difference it would make. Please explain.

Also, where would someone get a soilenoid designed for LPG?

And as was previously mentioned, this new setup isn't variable. Obviously this will be cheaper to put together and much simpler and therefore possibly more reliable, but are you getting better results with this type of a setup (non-variable)?

I would think this non-variable setup would be much easier to tune. And it won't suffer from the problem of reduced propane injection during falling boost @ high RPMs that people with smaller turbos might experience.

L8r,

QKRTHNU

tekky_98_TSi · Jul 7, 2002

variability...

I would say the variablility comes fromt he boost sensor controlling the relay pack that controls the solenoid, the adjustable regulator would prolly just regulate the propane's pressure up a bit or either limit its spray so you never go over a certain level... *shrug* I could be wrong

TheObiJuan · Jul 7, 2002

It would be nice if there was a warning light for low propane. dont want to run out when you are in the middle of the race and are pushing 25psi on 94 octane...

import power on · Jul 7, 2002

I took out the Variable valve due to it's low pressure output. It only works aftwer a Regulator that drops tank pressure. Was not able to get out of it what I wanted and the cost is high on the valve itself.

As for an N20 solenoid, DR tried it and it failed. I am using an LPG Propane Solenoid. Made specifically for LPG-Propane.

It is activated by a pressure switch that is adjustable to come on whatever PSI you want. I have it currently set at 8psi. I than have a variable gas rated valve that is adjusted fo rthe rate of flow but it is static.

This setup has given better results at higher boost and used LESS propane. It is also MUCH MUCH cheaper.

ocshaman · Jul 8, 2002

Mounting? The big problem that both you and DR have not really answered unless i have missed something, is where it is mounted. Also, how much more would a variable system cost?

TheObiJuan · Jul 8, 2002

ocshaman said:
Mounting? The big problem that both you and DR have not really answered unless i have missed something, is where it is mounted. Also, how much more would a variable system cost?

damn you took the words right out of my mouth.
could you offer the variable one as an option. kinda like the more expensive dual ball bearing design for some turbos?

import power on · Jul 8, 2002

As stated in previous post

I took out the Variable valve due to it's low pressure output. It only works aftwe a Regulator that drops tank pressure. Was not able to get out of it what I wanted and the cost is high on the valve itself.

Therefore I won't be selling it, It would not be like an expensive ball bearing turbo but rather an overpriced underacheiving propane system. The new setup has MUCH better results. MUCH BETTER.

Mounting?

Here is a pic

QKRTHNU · Jul 8, 2002

IPO,

Is the Adjustable Control Valve the only thing you're using to control the ammount of propane flowing to the intake?

Or are you using a N2O type nozzle w/ a jet?

Also, are you using braided steel AN lines or something else?

Thanks,

QKRTHNU

Ziggy · Jul 8, 2002

You probably cannot use a N20 solinoid because of its duty cycle. They are only suppoesd to be used for 30 seconds at a time max.. I dont recall the cool down time off hand but its long enough to make it un-usable in this setup.

One thing I am interested in is the legality in the mounting of the propane bottles. I mean anybody can find a couple of big tie wraps and some duct tape and mount them... :]

Oh and has anybody done any back to back dyno tests on this? I mean yes it reduces knock.. So now you are running 20psi instead of 18 psi but are you makeing more power or is the propane creating a rich mixture and dropping the power levels. Also propane doesnt release as much energy as gasoline.. so you could be loseing some power there to.

import power on · Jul 8, 2002

Nitrous solenoids can not be used. Duty cycle as stated is too short then they require cool down. I am using a Auto aproved LPG-Propane Solenoid, it s about twice as big as an N20 solenoid.

Not using variable anymore, see previous posts.

Currently using Goodyear High pressure nylon reinforced hose. There is never high pressure (not that high) in it since it is after the solenoid not between it and the bottle. The solenoid actually it directly mounted into the tank valve.

Not using any N20 type sprayer and no jetting to adjust, it is however adjusted thru a GAS aproved brass and SS manual ball valve.

TOTalon · Jul 8, 2002

What would be illegal about it?

Is it the fact that that it should be mounted outside the car rather than inside, or that its a possbile explosion hazzard in the event of an accident?

import power on · Jul 8, 2002

Don't know of the legality of having a propane tank in the vehicle witht he valve in teh open position. Howerver it is already ilegal to run with a Nitrous bottle in teh vehicle with the valve in teh open position. Heck, it's ilegal to have a Nitrous bottle with an auto valve opener/closer in your car with the line connected even if it is in the closed position.

Ziggy · Jul 8, 2002

import power on said:
Don't know of the legality of having a propane tank in the vehicle witht he valve in teh open position. Howerver it is already ilegal to run with a Nitrous bottle in teh vehicle with the valve in teh open position.

I belive the nitrous laws are on a state by state basis. There are regulations on the transportation of compressed gasses. I think they make exceptions for small amounts like <15 lbs n2o I think its ok to have it in your car for "transportation purposes"

Of course this goes without saying but the nitrous laws are so stupid.. I mean if your going to rule against that they should outlaw turbos and superchargers to..

Anyway I was more intrested in the legality in the mounting and transporting of the container than useing it..

tjh-dsm · Jul 8, 2002

I've been reading this thread and so far it looks like this setup could be what I'm looking for, and when I get back to AZ in August I may have to come up to Chandler and get one of these bad boys put in my trunk (no I'm not afraid of any explosion in the even of an accident, your fuel tank would explode before this bottle would). BUT, I have some questions:

1- Do you have an ESTIMATED cost for your new system?

2- I know this wouldn't be street legal (not like my car is anyways), but would this be legal at the track? I don't know if a propane setup would pass tech inspection, any thougths on this?

import power on · Jul 8, 2002

tjh-dsm said:
1- Do you have an ESTIMATED cost for your new system?

2- I know this wouldn't be street legal (not like my car is anyways), but would this be legal at the track? I don't know if a propane setup would pass tech inspection, any thougths on this?

1. Still lining up suppliers to get the highest quality but cost effective system together.

2. New Rule book for gas permitted includes LPG

steyr · Jul 8, 2002

i hope you have a very good lawyer 'cause the first time one of your clients gets rear-ended and their insurance denies their claim/their car blows up and kills them/etc etc, because they had a cumbustable gas in their trunk, you're going to need some kind of legal protection.

other than that, congratulations on your success in developing your system on your 3si. i'll continue looking into water injection, seeing how that doesn't present such a risk to my health. even if the benefits aren't as dramatic as propane, a line has to be drawn somewhere when it comes to personal safety.

-steyr

tekky_98_TSi · Jul 8, 2002

legalities...

So you mean I can sue the propane company if only I carried a filled bottle from *them* in my car and it happens to blow up in an accident?!?!? I think not! Otherwise same would go for NOS refillers...

Common sense does *not* say 'You sold me XXXX it did XXXX to me... so now you pay my XXXX bills....'

Common sense says, 'You sell me faulty equipment or screw up my install in a manner that does harm, you pay my XXXXX bills'

He has nothing to worry about, from what I've seen he isnt even selling the bottles...

You're responsible for your own actions, not the businesses that you buy from....

import power on · Jul 8, 2002

steyr said:
i hope you have a very good lawyer 'cause the first time one of your clients gets rear-ended and their insurance denies their claim/their car blows up and kills them/etc etc, because they had a cumbustable gas in their trunk, you're going to need some kind of legal protection.

other than that, congratulations on your success in developing your system on your 3si. i'll continue looking into water injection, seeing how that doesn't present such a risk to my health. even if the benefits aren't as dramatic as propane, a line has to be drawn somewhere when it comes to personal safety.

-steyr

With this logic everyone who has ever blown up in thier car due to gasoline can sue the gas companies and the car manufacturers. As mentioned, some have sued, but this was due to manufacturer defect.

Propane tanks are MUCH stronger than a gas tank, tru to puncture a gas tank with a screwdriver, UH OH, it's leaking aint it? Now, try to do that to a propane tank...Oh, you can't can you? Trailers, mobile homes, BBQ grills, all use Propane tanks. Haven't seen one explode yet.

Diesel trucks have used propane systems for years. There have been ZERO incidents of tank rupture. ZERO.

And yes, I am not supplying the tanks. That is the buyers responsibility. And I suggest you install the tank OUTSIDE the vehicle. Inside mounting is not suggested and proper ventilation is also suggested.

Variable Propane Installed!

import power on

russthelm

QKRTHNU

tekky_98_TSi

TheObiJuan

import power on

ocshaman

TheObiJuan

import power on

QKRTHNU

Ziggy

import power on

TOTalon

import power on

Ziggy

tjh-dsm

import power on

steyr

tekky_98_TSi

import power on

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