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Z28 LS1 vs 90 TSi AWD - COPS SUCK

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FaRd0wN

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Not much of a kill story or a story either. I pulled out of chili's and then match up with my friend in a Z28. We were throwing back and forth, i was surprised. Around the 30-70 range I was holding up quite well with him. I have zero mods and am actually slower than stock with 9psi. Heheheh, so I was staying up with the Z quite well. Here's the part were i dislike cops. The scenario: A fresh dusting of snow to reduce traction and a red light with me and the Z28 out front. As the cross traffic light goes red i noticed a stupid trooper sitting on the side of the road, always there to ruin the fun. I could have finally seen what my ride can do off the line but instead the stupid cop had to be sitting there. It was too perfect, I am so pissed right now. Anyway, after the light we went back and forth again and that was about it. I should have taken the Z at the light but the pigs had to be hunting. This is more of an anti cop post than a kill story. :p Oh well, fun racing!!!
 
#2 ·
Yup The Man is always there at the worst times, like when trying to drag off the line, or when you're cruising at a meisly 110. Bastards!

Since he's your friend, I'm sure you won't have much of problem setting up another race. I sure wish my friends drove quick cars, I have to go against SUVs, trucks, Civics, etc.. all kills, but who cares! :)
 
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#3 ·
FaRd0wN said:
As the cross traffic light goes red i noticed a stupid trooper sitting on the side of the road, always there to ruin the fun.
Click to expand...
Damn... I hate when a cop is doing his job, that we, the taxpayers, pay him to do. Damn the man!!

:D
 
#4 ·
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but one of my best friends has a '97 TSi Talon and it is not even remotely in the same league as a LS1 Camaro. Maybe 0-20 in the rain you'd have a chance. My friend said it was totally humiliating when he ran me from a 60mph roll, he had the throttle on the floor in third and I pulled beside him so fast that he thought he had thrown an anchor out the back.

Let's not live in a fantasy world here.

I also beat him with my stock GTP Grand Prix, with crap in the back and my wife in the passenger seat. He was pretty amazed... he got the jump on me while the GTP spun a bit (unloading the front tires, blah) and then just hauled itself beside him at about 50mph, and kept on going, with the speed differential pretty marked at 80mph.

I hate seeing B.S. stories like this one.
 
#5 ·
Nice of you calling a post BS without even having the facts straight.

97 Talon or any 2G talons are a low quite a bit slower, than a 1G thanks to their added weight, worse flowing head, smaller turbo, and a few other misc items.

Plus not to mention racing a DSM from 30-70 is a lot different than racing racing from a 60 mph role. 60 and over is where AWD stock DSM do not shine. Especially against a 5.7L V8 Ls1 with mad top end.

There are too many variables you judge. Saying the the story was BS is just plain ignorant. You were not there. The Camaro driver might of had traction trouble, not know how to drive or whatever.

I would understand the need to raise the BS flag if he said I held my ground from 70-120, but from 30-70 is totally believable. As in my FWD. I can barely walk all my friends 1g AWDS, but on the Highway it is a different story.

Peter
 
#7 ·
Sorry, I'll wave my B.S. flag a little higher, if you don't mind. LS1 V8s have a nearly completely flat torque curve from 2000 RPM to 5500 RPM. Anywhere in there, which I hope you'll agree is a broad range, the car will accelerate almost identically with no differences in the power range.

It's true that the driver may have kept the car a gear high, or something of that nature, but the idea that a stock 1G Talon will hold with a stock LS1 Camaro is just fantasy. We're talking about a car that runs low 13s with a traction problem versus a car with perfect traction that runs mid 15s. There is no comparison. My friend Paul Morris ran 12.9@108.9 in his '98 WS6 Formula with free mods and one plug with the electrode burnt off!

I know this is a Talon board, so I'm not posting "Talon kills" or anything, and believe me I could. But I don't really care to stand idly by while someone makes a gross mistruth.

Now, I bought my wife a '98 GTP Grand Prix (new). It's got four doors, moon roof, HUD, power seat, etc. etc. Basically a loaded vehicle. It ran 14.84@98 bone stock, and I have the time slip to prove it... it consistently ran 14.9s for a while and started edging up a bit as it got hotter. Absolutely nothing done to it. And this is the heavy version of the GTP, remember.

[Edited by Shaman on 02-11-2001 at 10:10 PM]
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Er, looking for trouble eh?

Thanks for the support Peter and ieatv8s...

Peter does have a good point, I didnt tell you all of the facts...

1) The Z28 is AUTOMATIC - not stick shift (that means all he has to do is floor it to go fast)
2) I already said it but there WAS snow on the ground
3) The Z28 was loaded, 4 people in it.

I think that these few factors add up to quite alot. I was there, I think I know what happened. I was hanging with the Z, I never said that I was pulling on him or anything of the sort. Thank you for the feedback but you are wrong.

Also the Z driver, my friend, did make sure to tell me he was surprised at how well I kept up.
 
#10 ·
The inference here is that it can hold its own against a LS1 Camaro. <waves the flag a bit more>

You should see this video, then.

Stock LT1 Camaro versus lightly modded (you can hear the BOV, etc so it's a good assumption) DSM, versus a stock LS1 Camaro. They really are that fast.

Now, it's interesting to note that the thread starter said nothing about the three passengers, etc. etc.

Sorry, I just don't like B.S.

[Edited by Shaman on 02-11-2001 at 10:50 PM]
 
#11 ·
Shaman- No we like your posts. :) We like competition. You learn and go faster. So it's all welcome.

But I must say you are constantly putting for an idea of what would happen in an ideal situation, in 70 degree sunny weather. I do agree that a stock 98 Camaro Z28 and Stockish well with Free mods 90 TSI AWD 5-spd, would be no competition. I myself have been slaughterd by a ls1 SS with mods on the highway. We are not disputing what would happen under ideal conditions. The ls1 would walk the DSM by many car lengths.

I happen to know both cars, I happen to know the place they raced, I happen to know the weather that the race occured in, and it's believable. The camaro happens to be an Automatic z28. The weather was in the low 20s, and there was snow on the ground. Plus I think you are still under the impression that this was some long race from a roll. It wasn't. From 30-70 the ls1 does not really shine. It does have a flat torque curve, but in it's own nature that is not where it peformes. Proof is in how ls1 trap high at not so high ets. And looking at the DSM. An awd in cold weather at low speed is fast. Especially since it has short gears. In a short burst, especially from a jump , for a short race like 30-70 the Camaro wouldn't be much faster.

I understand your status, but I think you need to look into the real situation, not the ideal situation.
 
#12 ·
Hey, I'm not knocking DSMs.

I got beat in the rain by Blair DuGuid in his near stock DSM (more suspension mods than anything). It's hard to get down 500hp in the rain... :)

This post is a bit disingenious, and at least he's come back in to say "yeah there was another 500 pounds worth of people in it, etc. etc." So I'm outta this convo now. :)
 
#13 ·
Ok that video is proof that with a jump from a stop a stock DSM has no chance against a stock ls1. No one is arguing that point. From 0-100 I would be disappointed if the ls1 didn't walk the DSM.

Plus a BOV is not a safe assumption for mods. The DSM doesn't even sound like it has an exhaust, and an exhaust is one of the first mods you do.

The inference is from a 30 mph roll to 70 mph an lightly modded DSM will holds its own. Your video even goes onto to prove that. The camaros had the jump on the DSM. The ls1 only goes onto to seriously start pulling after the DSM hits 4th, which would be around exactly 70. Which is where our race ended. It also goes onto prove the the ls1 doesn't really shine at low speeds, as both the DSM and lt1 are keeping up with it quite well.

I still don't see any reason to post a BS story.

You know I had to pull this one up :)

Lightly modded DSM vs a ls1 ws6.

http://www.notabusinessracing.org/videos/fathouse_vs_ws6.mpg
 
#15 ·
When talking modified cars, anything is possible. I know that DSM is modified because an LT1 Camaro is a low 14s car, which can dip into the 13s on a good day.

I've seen some crazy driven street cars. My Formula, for instance, idles as well as it did stock and appears stock to the untrained eye. However, it will easily pull 120mph 1/4 mile traps. Luis Custodio drives an 7.9x second Camaro on the streets sometimes with his "middle sized" 535 CID motor. He hasn't done a pass yet with his 625 CID plant.

I've been in the very least modified twin turbo LS1 Camaro that there is. That is a "Stage I". It has 500rwhp. :)

You just never know how things turn out.


When you get into mods, anything can, and often does,
happen. And DSMs - as you know - are good for it, too.

This year I get to drive against (and I hope, get a chance to drive with) Nick Majors in a very high-mod 2G Talon - he's hoping for 500hp, stripped with a full racing suspension. We'll see how that goes, I'm optimistic.
 
#17 ·
Yeah ls1 are pretty impressive. I would love to own one, but it isn't my thing. Plus I couldn't afford one. :)

Good luck in modifying your car. Your car combined with some traction should be a beast. What is the fastest ls1 anyway now? Last time I checked mids 10s?

If my car ever decides to run right it should be a low 13 car in street trim, thanks to FWD. :( Anyway it's a bad excuse for a dsm.

If it was AWD low 12s on street tires relabilty would be my goal.
 
#18 ·
I just watched that video. I wonder what year T/A that is... I can't make out whether there are honeycombs (LS1) or squares. Dunno... he got schooled on the jump, for sure. Very nice kill, and obviously an experienced driver, the 1-2 shift was very quick. The guy in the other car is asleep, by the looks of it. He started braking just when the car started getting into the groove. :)

Well, I'm really desiring a Z06 'vette now. 12.4@115 bone stock, from what I've been hearing from the drag strip guys (what a waste of a car that handles like that!) A Z06 'vette with my motor in it would be a nice combo. And someone would buy my Formula for good money with a LS6 in it. :)

I think the LS1s are into the mid 10s with full interior, but there are some deep into the 9s with more work. Good for them... it's not my thing really. I kept my interior and my CD stack in a car that has a track record at the Mosport DDT. Good enough for me. I don't want an unstreetable car just so I can go toe to toe with other, more modified cars. :)

[Edited by Shaman on 02-11-2001 at 11:35 PM]
 
#19 ·
Yeah well when your car is putting down the power it is, I would say that you really don't need to worry about anything car on the street short of another heavily modified car. :) Your car is very sweet, and fast!


If you want to check out some cool DSM videos. Check this one out.

http://www.notabusinessracing.org/videos/k2/kannon_testing.mpg


A few friends of mine from http://www.teamnabr.com

It's a 13 sec GSt with a 90 GSX. The GSX hit a 12.4 running real rich, and bogging launchs first time out. All stock internals, only bolt ons.

That gsx is one you would not want to race from a stop on the street. That thing is pretty much unstopable on the street. With tuning it should be in the low 11s high 10s in street trim. It can break all 4 wheels free in 1st and 2nd.

Peter
 
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