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Is there a reason we do not use 3" Intercooler piping?

1.6K views 16 replies 11 participants last post by  AdamTalon  
#1 ·
Just curious. I know with a good front mount and short route piping, larger diameter IC pipes such as a 3" or so, should be able to fit. My question is, why do we not use them? Just curious. Most people don't even have lower IC pipes. Is this a bad thing? Why not enlarge the outlet at least on most FMIC's and run a 3" UICP. Is there a disadvantage? Why do most 2g UICP's end just after the BOV? Only a few seem to go the entire way. Just curious. I want to hear some reasons why, and why not.

Why is the J pipe for a 16g etc, so damn small, why not open it up IMMEDIATELY, instead it is kept so freaking small for so long.
 
#6 ·
Agreed. Also the lower pipe is less important based on the fact that most compressor outlets arent that large. Plus the air coming off the compressor is warmer and therefore will flow better thru the smaller piping than the cooler air on the outlet side of the ic.
 
#8 ·
It's a common misconception that hotter gases flow better hence require smaller piping. NOT TRUE! In fact, viscosity of air actually INCREASES with temperature. Additionally, the velocity increase caused by the volume increase due to the temperature increase is much more significant than changes in viscosity.

On that note, it is more important to have larger exhaust piping than intercooler piping when reducing overall flow losses. Also keep in mind that step changes in diameter causes head losses.
 
#9 ·
Jehu said:
It's a common misconception that hotter gases flow better hence require smaller piping. NOT TRUE! In fact, viscosity of air actually INCREASES with temperature. Additionally, the velocity increase caused by the volume increase due to the temperature increase is much more significant than changes in viscosity.

On that note, it is more important to have larger exhaust piping than intercooler piping when reducing overall flow losses. Also keep in mind that step changes in diameter causes head losses.
There we go, more of a specific answer. Any theory behind your answer? What head losses are associated, and how can someone precisely device the perfect size IC pipe.
 
#10 ·
agreed that with the main restriction being the throttle body it would be quite useless right now. i do however know that buschur sells a 3 inch throttle body.
 
#11 ·
Hey Jehu,

Here is a bit of text from the Road Race Engineering website in describing their downpipes:

"Our DPs have a 2 1/2" stainless steel first bend with a 2 1/2" stainless steel flex section. They then expand to 3" right after the flex section right under the oil pan area. Why start out at 2 1/2"? If you are running on the stock O2 sensor housing, even ported it is 2 1/2" inside diameter. When the exhaust gasses are hot, they flow better, 2 1/2" is plenty for the first 12". As the gasses cool , bigger helps. By going to 3" after the flex section, we allow this expansion and also allow for better clearance at the front where room is tight. "

This seems to contradict your theory on that...I know this is a discussion topic that has been discussed many times (Don't tell me to use the damn search button), but this seems that it should also apply to intercooling piping as well, although the temps are obviously not the same...
 
#12 ·
Heh, sorry, but this is not up for debate. God has decided that viscosity of air will be increase with temperature, who's RRE to argue? Seriously though, just look up a viscosity/temperature table for air and you'll see what I mean. By the way, a 2.5" front section is typically used on 3" DPs because otherwise there would be oil filter clearance issues. Coinkidink? You tell me.

Okay, equation for head loss i.e. pressure drop, assuming incompressible flow, is as follows :
For a circular pipe,

head-loss = f * L/D * V^2/2g

f is a dimensionless friction factor which is a function of the Reynolds number,
L is the pipe length
D is the pipe diameter
V is the flow velocity
g is gravitational acceleration

I won't get into how to find f, but it can be calculated if you know the Reynolds number of the flow, which is in turn dependent on the velocity and viscosity. Look up some fluid dynamics texts and it'll be in there.

Now, any bends, contractions, expansions will have their own associated pressure losses, so as you can imagine, this gets pretty convoluted very quickly. All I can say is that the ideal IC pipe really depends primarily on the flow volume you are putting in.

If we were to assume that mitsubishi's engineers did the requisite flow modeling in specifying the engine, let's assume that the 2" IC pipe gives the minimum headloss for a stock engine's airflow. If we double the air flow through the pipe, making huge assumptions that all else are equal (e.g. air temperature/pressure etc), you end up with a pipe diameter of 1.32 larger than stock. To derive it, assume that you keep the same headloss, thus the above equation reduces to V1^2/D1 = V2^2/D2. Then using the relation that velocity = flow volume / x -sectional area, you end up with V2/V1 = (Q2*D1^2)/(Q1*D2^2). Combining the two equations will give you the result of D2/D1 = 1.32.

Now just add temperature and pressure influences to make it reflect reality a little closer.
 
#15 ·
I kind of already knew the answer to the exhaust question before I asked it ;) Clearance issues...

So by your formula then Jehu, if the stock IC piping is 2" and the engine makes 210 HP, then by having a 2.62" pipe (2 * 1.32) it should support 420 HP? (Doubling flow through pipe)

I am pretty curious what I need for my t-25 and then for a T28 in the future...Is 2.25" enough for 330 HP?

Thanks for the great response so far...
 
#16 ·
Not exactly. HP is related to the mass of air not volume, so unless if you run the same psi as stock to hit 420hp, you will not get twice the volume flow rate.

So if you have an idea what psi you will be running the T28 at, you can estimate a volume flow rate and hence a pipe size diameter required to keep the same pressure drop.