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Coil-on-plug ignition?

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#21 ·
DOHCdave said:
The AEM EMS is 1400 but it can easily control ANY coil you want to do, it can do ANYTHING a TMO ECU can do, anything a aquamist water injection kit can do, anything a greedy emanage, safc, or profec B can do. Anything a zex nitrous computer can do. Anything a VPC can do. And it does it all better, and it does more.

Supra guys with EMS have done LS1 coils, and yes, they are fucking amazing.
Click to expand...
Excellent EMS infomercial. So what exactly does it take to determine a coil is "fucking amazing"? And on that same scale, where do the stock DSM coils land? How much spark energy are we talking for the LS1 coils? Do you know how much spark energy the DSM coils put out? Or an MSD 6, for reference?

Brad
 
#22 ·
So is this dicussion over? I'm really interested in the LS1 coil discussion. I have a 98 LS1, if someone can give me some schematics I'd be willing to pull my coils to try it on my 91 TSi
 
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#23 ·
brads said:


Excellent EMS infomercial. So what exactly does it take to determine a coil is "fucking amazing"? And on that same scale, where do the stock DSM coils land? How much spark energy are we talking for the LS1 coils? Do you know how much spark energy the DSM coils put out? Or an MSD 6, for reference?

Brad
Click to expand...
Haha, sorry, i had just gotten mine, I was excited. Some supra guy put individual coils on his Supra....stock the spark was bright yellow and arced decent. The MSD made it arc thicker and a bit further, a lil brighter. The LS1 coild made it jump twice as far as stock, glow blue-white and he could smell ozone...
 
#24 ·
So lets hear it.. any specs on the LS1 coils? Any wiring harness info? Inquiring minds want to know. :D
 
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#25 ·
DOHCdave said:


Haha, sorry, i had just gotten mine, I was excited. Some supra guy put individual coils on his Supra....stock the spark was bright yellow and arced decent. The MSD made it arc thicker and a bit further, a lil brighter. The LS1 coild made it jump twice as far as stock, glow blue-white and he could smell ozone...
Click to expand...
Yeah, the EMS looks like it'd be fun to play with, cant blame you for being pumped up.

As far as the test methods used, they arent the right way to test a coil. Unless your engine builds zero pressure that is. Opening the spark gap up, will tell you how far it will jump under zero pressure. That gives you some indication as to the peak amount of voltage it can produce. BUT peak voltage does not make a good spark. You dont need peak voltage, you only need enough voltage to bridge the spark gap. This is going to be determined by the engine, not the coil. Once the gap is bridged(this takes 5-30kV), then as the current is flowing, you only have a few hundred volts across the spark gap. Once the spark is initiated, energy storage rating of the coil is more important, as you want more energy delivered to the plug.

The look of the spark can be very deceptive as well. Ever watch the nology plugwire demos? They seem LOTS brighter than stock, right? Well, what is happening with them(as seen with oscilloscopes to measure the spark event), is that they work the same as regular plug wires, only they store a fractional amount of energy in the capacitor built in to the wires(the copper braiding is part of this). After the initial voltage buildup, and flashover, the capacitor is discharged for a nanosecond range time period. So for that miniscule time period, you get more current through the spark gap. With the aid of persistence of vision, thats long enough to appear much brighter. But if that actually ignites one more molecule of fuel than normal in that short time, count yourself lucky. It sure looks mean when fired in open air though. It also can cause a bit of ignition retard at high RPM due to that cap charging, but thats a different story. The MSD is a CDI based system, and is shorter and brighter than standard inductive coils in a similar manner. The LS1 coil, I cant say what its story is, as I havent tested one.

Also, another thing to check is that each coil may require drastically different dwell times. Did he modify these as he swapped between testing the LS1 and supra coils?

BTW, for reference, A buddy measured the DSM ignition at 120 millijoules of spark energy, the MSD-6 is rated at 110millijoules, the MSD-DIS2 is 135 I think?

Brad
 
#26 ·
MSD DIS-2 HO is rated at 170 mJ, 470 V primary, 43,000 V secondary.

Regular MSD DIS-2 is 105-115 mJ, 460-480 V primary, "40,000+" V secondary.

Not sure about anything else but I thought I'd post that, since I'm looking through the specs on these ignition boxes to see whether I want to buy a MSD DIS-2-HO or a Crane HI-6DI2... (making a thead in parts talk in a minute here).
 
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#27 ·
I've been having a conversation with the guy that did it with the supra. he gave me this link http://www.motec.com.au/drawings/m32.pdf
which is very helpful. Also looks like the dwell is 3ms on the LS1 coil, so what is the dsms? Also would you still nedd to run the power transistor with this setup?
 
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#28 ·
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#31 ·
The link to my Coil on Plug project is:

Vfaq

There is enough information there to "do it yourself", assuming you know what you are doing in the first place.

The most common question is how well does it work... the engine runs, and I've done 24 psi pass with a 100 shot on it.

Hal
 
#33 ·
This among many parts would be a very nice thing to import from japan from the Lancer EVO.

I looked into it but my main limitation was finding a purchasing agent they won't "white man price" for. When I went with my ex girlfriend and her poor japanese the prices we got were much higher then we knew they should be for anything we asked about.
 
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#39 ·
Those are NA gaps though, they don't have to worry as much about high cylinder pressures blowing the spark out. Plus keep in mind that if you're sticking with the stock wasted spark setup that you're going to need coils with comparable recharge time to the stock ones. Since most COP coils only fire once per revolution, not twice like out stock setups, will they have ample time to recharge?
 
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