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luv4turbos

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I have a M/T 97tsiawd. I can't figure out how people build boost before launch. I can hold rpm's between 3000-4000 and not even build to 0 on my guage. How do other people do it.
 
what happens when you rev higher?
 
M/T's won't build boost untill you launch. The reason is because, the engine has to be under load. The only car that will be able to build boost at the line is an A/T. I've also heard some rare occerences that a studder box may build some boost. That being "heard" and not "proven".
 
91SilverTalonTSI said:
M/T's won't build boost untill you launch. The reason is because, the engine has to be under load. The only car that will be able to build boost at the line is an A/T. I've also heard some rare occerences that a studder box may build some boost. That being "heard" and not "proven".
well said. also if you build boost at the line you risk breaking parts like rears, trannies, clutches, you name it.
 
hmm
my s4 built boost at a stand still all the time...and it's a 6-speed manual.

I'm pretty sure I've driven a lot of other turbo cars doing the same...is it just a dsm thing?
 
infury said:
hmm
my s4 built boost at a stand still all the time...and it's a 6-speed manual.

I'm pretty sure I've driven a lot of other turbo cars doing the same...is it just a dsm thing?
There has been a couple of threads on this subject, it seems that some can build boost by reving and some cant. Its kinda weird how that works.

As for the original question you can build boost at the starting line in a 5 speed, alotta people dont recommend it though, and you will burn the shit out of you clutch.
 
I suppose I just don't get why the turbo wouldn't spool under throttle response even with the car not moving. air pressure is still being built up, but...i guess that's just the way it is
 
i think if you have a bb turbo it may be easier to build boost while reving, my friend had a bb 20g and it definetly built boost while reving, bov was loud and all just from gunning it in nuetral. my car and other's dsm's that are not extensively modded don't however build more than 5 psi at redline in nuetral.
 
You could put it in neutral, engage the e-brake, push in on the clutch, rev the engine up, partially release the clutch to get some load on the engine, the boost will build, then let off the clutch and e-brake at the same time and punch the gas. I'm not recommending you make a habit of it, but I did it once and it works.
 
I don't see how that would build boost and not the other way. I'm not doubting you but it just doesn't add up logically. The car is still not moving either way nor is it in gear, thus it shouldn't build boost just because the ebrake is on.
 
e brake on and clutch out a little (car is under load). this will both build up boost and burn out the clutch + probably result in a shitty launch + a redlight from moving a little by accident-shitty unless you practice this technique alot.

a guy with a supra (auto) told me his technique was to brake torque with the break and the e-brake to build boost at the line. his method proved shitty cause he messed up at it more times than he did good while i was watching. too many things at once imho..
 
How a turbo works (simply stated)

The reason you can't build boost while the engine is not under load is that you are not generating heat. If you are holding at X RPMs (waiting to launch) your engine is generating very low power (not consuming much air or fuel). It is true that exhaust gas is flowing through the turbine, but because you are not consuming much air or fuel, you are not generating much heat (expands the exhaust gases).

Think about it this way: if you were to put a little fuel and air into each cylinder and ignite it, the mixture will burn, heat up, and expand to a larger volume. This volume creates flow through the turbine, which spools the turbo. Because not much exhaust (expanded volume) is flowing, you will not build much boost. That's what is happening with an unloaded engine.

Now let's look at a loaded engine: if you were to put a lot of fuel and air into each cylinder and ignite it, the mixture will burn, generate a lot of heat, and expand to a much larger volume. This large increase in volume creates a large flow through the turbine, which spools the turbo (generates lots of boost).

By riding the clutch you can put a load on your engine and create boost. Or, you can quickly rev your engine and use the rotational inertia of your flywheel to generate a load, but this load depends on the rate of change of RPMs (how fast you rev).

Hope that helps.
 
so how does that explain why many cars do generate boost while at the same time not riding the clutch at a stand still?

I got mine up to a full 15PSI
 
I'm certain
I've also driven other cars that do the same
I believe the early 90's MR2's do...infact I can ask my buddy.
 
Infury, are you revving or holding a set RPM?

If you are revving, then you are generating load from your flywheel. Also, small turbos require less exhaust flow to spool. I have a stock (small) turbo and stock (heavy) flywheel and can generate boost if I rev. Producing 15 psi at a set RPM with no load sounds more like a supercharger than a turbo. I would imagine that your S4's 2.7 liters with a compression ratio of 9.3:1 would spool a turbo faster because it creates more exhaust at a given no load RPM.

Another way to look at it is: to hold a set no load RPM you do not have to push the gas pedal very far. That means that the throttle plate is not open very far, which in turn means not much air goes into the engine. Not much flow in means not much flow out, which drives the turbine and creates boost. That's why most people do not generate much boost in a no load condition.

Under load to get to that same RPM, you will have to mash the gas, which means more air in and more air out (especially when that much air/fuel mixture is burnt and expands) and consequently, more boost.

Now I'm not familiar with the S4's turbo set up, or where you had you boost controller set, but if you were generating that much boost under no load, I imagine the waste gate would have to open as soon as you put any load on the engine. But like I said, I'm not familiar with S4's???
 
the K03 turbo's in the S4 are notoriously small. However I used to hold the revs at a stand still ~5K building 14.7psi.

All my gauges read correctly, I never thought it to be unusual. I wish I would have worked more with the turbo itself, as I never got to upgrade.

But I suppose we'll never know unless I can get my hands on another one :)
 
To take TalonGreen's statement about throttle position a step further, are we talking about boost pressure after or before the throttle plate. If your boost gauge is plumbed before the throttle body, wouldn't raising the rpm and causing the turbo to spin up and having the throttle not very far, would you be reading a positive pressure due to the intake charge hitting the restriction of a mostly closed throttle plate.

I know I'm reaching but this is starting to bug me now.
 
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