Timing Belt Position?

Bulletproof · Jun 7, 2003

I'm currently doing a 6-bolt swap in my 1997 GST and I have a question about the timing belt position. I using the 1997 motor mount and purchased a 1997 Idle Pulley and Tensioner Puller. I'm also using the tensioner arm from the 1997.

The issue I have is that after completing the time belt and confirming that all timing marks are lined up, the belt seems to be riding on the rear edge of the cam sprockets,cranksprocket, and oil pump sprocket. When I had the 7-bolt engine in the belt ran dead center on all.

Any suggestion or comments appreciated

MNGSX · Jun 7, 2003

Umm did you see this?

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93638

Bulletproof · Jun 7, 2003

Yes I did read that thread but it was related to the tensioner itself. I'm playing it safe and using the 1G Tensioner. My concern was that the timing belt was riding on the back edge of the Cam sprockets.

I just fixed the issue by adding a flat washer to the back of the tensioner pulley. After I put the washer on and reset the timing belt it now rides dead center of all the pulleys.

I don't see that adding the washer will in any way compromise the timing setup, do you?

MNGSX · Jun 7, 2003

purchased a 1997 Idle Pulley and Tensioner Puller. I'm also using the tensioner arm from the 1997.

now

I'm playing it safe and using the 1G Tensioner

The hydralic tensioner needs to match the arm. 1g Hyd Tensioner with an 1g arm. 2g hyd tensioner with a 2g arm.

So now you have a

1. 1g front cover
2. 1g hydralic tensioner
3. 1g tensioner arm
4. 2g Tensioner pulley with washer to align it on the 1g arm (It's ok)
5. 2g idler pulley

That washer wont't comprimise anything and neirther does my shaving of a 2g tensioner arm or the spacer I used to get a 2g hydralic tensioner on a 1g cover.

Right?

If thats the case you are A ok

I'm just runing

1. 1G front cover
2. 2G hydralic tensioner with a hand fitted spacer on the left bolt.
3. 2g tensioner arm clearanced for 1g water pump.
4. 2g tensioner pulley
5. 2G idler pulley.

Bulletproof · Jun 7, 2003

Looking at the 2 tensioner arms side by side they are the same with the exception that the 1G has a taller mount for the tensioner pulley( thus the need for the washer).

As for the matching of arm and tensior, as far as I know the tensior must match the front cover not the arm. it is a positioning thing, but with that said RRE matched all the 2G components to the 6-bolt block.

MNGSX · Jun 7, 2003

If you look at the placement of the pulley on the tensioner arm the 2g has this hole up higher on the arm. The "finger" (for lack of another term) that contacts the tensioner on a 2g arm is much longer than a 1g arm "finger" The plunger on a 2g hydralic tensioner is more forward of the plunger on a 1g hydrlic tensioner.

If you look at any used tesioner arm there will be a wear mark (a little dot) where it made contact with the tensioners plunger. My plunger hits the same exact spot on the "finger" as it did when the duo was on the 7-bolt block and cover.

If I had'nt just done the T-belt my 7-bolt with brand new pulleys and a new tensioner on before it crapped out I would have just bought a 1g tensioner and pulley for the 6-bolt. I'd have the same setup as you.

5 minutes of light grinding for clearance and 2 minutes on the adapter for the tensioner (simple tubular spacer) was worth it to save $70-$80.

Bulletproof · Jun 7, 2003

I guess I must have been confused. I must be using the 1G arm, because the tensioner match perfectly with the arm.

I only need to find an oil feed line for my t25 and my 6-bolt swap will be complete

MNGSX · Jun 7, 2003

Do you have the air to oil adapter?

You can use the RRE braided line.

Just put it in the right hole.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/oilline/1goillinelocation.jpg

Im just using the same kind 90 degree fitting with hard lines I bent with a hand tubing bender. It will hug the block and follow a path much like the factory 2g oil feed line.

Here is the RRE line installed on the other type of oil filter adapter.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/oilline/oillineinstalled-2g.jpg

Bulletproof · Jun 8, 2003

I thought about the RRE oil line but they said it would not work with the T25. I think I'm just going to buy AN fitting and some braided line.

Yes I'm using the Air-to-Oil cooler setup. The only problem I have found with the 1990 oil filter bracket is that it is only tapped for one sensor(ie Oil Pressure Sensor or Oil Idiot Light) So as you can guess I used the Oil Pressure Sensor.

Bulletproof · Jun 8, 2003

Here is my Current Setup

6-Bolt Block bored .20 over, 0 decked,align honed

1G front Case(Threaded and JB Welded the old balance shaft hole)
1G Oil Pump
1G Air-to-Oil Cooler
1G Head completely rebuilt(Match Ported)
1G throttle body with 1997 sensors
1G Intake manifold cleaned and deburred
1G Tensioner Arm
1G Tensioner
Balance Shafts Eliminated

2G Tensioner Pulley
2G Idle Pulley
2G ported and polished Exhaust Mani
2G Ported and Polished O2 Housing
2G T to small Turbo
Lighten Pulley set(I keep the Harmonic Balancer)

RRE Lightened Fly wheel
RRE UIC
Greddy Type S BOV
ACT 2100 Clutch
All new Vacuum Hoses
All New Water Hoses

I also did not reuse any wear parts(Tensioners,Pulleys,etc)

Grand Total for the engine purchase and rebuild was

$3300.00+ plus I sold the old 7-bolt with rebuilt head for $750 for a grand total of $2550.00

Not bad for a completely new engine

MNGSX · Jun 8, 2003

thought about the RRE oil line but they said it would not work with the T25. I think I'm just going to buy AN fitting and some braided line.

Save the AN and braid for your oil cooler lines. You actually need a large expensive flexible line for that.

For the turbo oil feed a 90 that threads in and some brake/oil line that threads into the 90. Think the RRE elbow with a factory line sticking out of it.

A brake tubing bender is cheap and easy to operate. You will use it time and time again. A double flare tool set can be rented or borrowed.

I'll shoot some pics of mine it looks like an oem part.

Yes for the time being (short) it does terminate in the center cartrige of a T-25.

I have a female fiting up the line like the factory setup too. Infact the last section is the factory line.

When I swap TC's I'll just bend a line to go from the new turbo to the where the end of the short section of factory line I'm still using ends.

"I also did not reuse any wear parts(Tensioners,Pulleys,etc) "

I did'nt buy that 2g tensioner that many miles ago nor the pulleys. I could'nt see tossing something that new.

Grand Total for the engine purchase and rebuild was

$3300.00+ plus I sold the old 7-bolt with rebuilt head for $750 for a grand total of $2550.00

Not bad for a completely new engine

Not bad at all.

I have tons-o-buddys at parts places, stealerships and machine shops. I'm embarrased to say exactly how little I spent. It's the same parts and workmanship just well connected and self assembled!

Bulletproof · Jun 8, 2003

I have been able to talk the local dealership in to giving me a 30% discount on all parts and I did all the assembly myself. The bulk of my expense has been:

6-bolt Block,1G Head
$325

5 Angle R&R,port and polish Head
$500.00

Machining the 90 rods to match the 95 pistons
(Included ARP rod bolts Ceramic Coating and Hastings Rings)
$365.00

ACT 2100 Clutch Kit,Type S BOV,Catch Can,Larson Hose Kit,UIC pipe, Lightened Flywheel,MBC)
$800.00

And $20 dollars here,$50 Dollars there...etc.etc

It adds Up Fast.....

As for the Oil Cooler I have a new set of the OEM oil lines, that I got with the cooler.

MNGSX · Jun 9, 2003

My nickle and dime stuff is up there too.

six bolt block

$ zero

1g head and intake

$50

90% of the engine gaskets and seals

$ zero

Someone I know had left over new ones in his box at a shop

I'll tally up the HG, Felpro stem seals and the other odds and ends.

Machinist buddies who put special TLC into operations and give price breaks to freinds.... Priceless.

Bulletproof · Jun 9, 2003

I found 10 complete 6-bolt blocks at a local core facility. I'm trying to cut a deal with him to get them all for a decent price. I would e curious to know how much I could get for them completely rebuilt and ready to drop in a car.

This would be the setup

6-bolt block bored .20 over with 95 pistons and 90 rods
1G Head ported and polished with 5 angle (includes cams,rockers and revised lifters)
1G Intake and Throttle Body
1990 Air-to-Oil Cooler connections
completely assembled with new front case,pulleys,timing belt.

The only thing not included would be.

Timing Belt covers
Power Steering Pump
Generator
AC Unit
AC Belts
Turbo(Add Your Own)
Exhaust Manifold(Keep you 2G)
Oil Cooler Core
Oil Cooler Lines(Oil Filter Housing fitted with AN Fittings)
Coil Pack
CAS
EGR(Will be Blocked Off)
Balance Shafts (Will be Blocked and Removed)

So what do you think would be a fair price?

MNGSX · Jun 11, 2003

Timing Belt covers

Needed for a proper 7 to 6 swap

Power Steering Pump

Not needed swapers and 1g replacement ppl will use theirs

Generator

Umm alternator. Generators went out along time ago. Again most the buyers would use their own.

AC Unit

Not needed swapers and 1g replacement ppl will use theirs

AC Belts

Get their own

Turbo(Add Your Own)

Same as the belts

Exhaust Manifold(Keep you 2G)

Good call there

Oil Cooler Core

Use a big aftermarket. I mount mine high on front of the AC condensor in front of the ac fan. It gets more air than in the corner of the bumper. More on this later

Oil Cooler Lines(Oil Filter Housing fitted with AN Fittings)

Good Idea

Coil Pack

2g packs can go on a 1g manifold. It's nice to have the 1g pack bracket though.

CAS

Not to hard to find

EGR(Will be Blocked Off)

EGR valves are'nt to spendy either. Most people should keep it on daily drivers.

Balance Shafts (Will be Blocked and Removed)
Good call.

6-bolt block bored .20 over with 95 pistons and 90 rods
1G Head ported and polished with 5 angle (includes cams,rockers and revised lifters)
1G Intake and Throttle Body
1990 Air-to-Oil Cooler connections
completely assembled with new front case,pulleys,timing belt.

You could get alot for them. Price what some shops want for that.

Timing Belt Position?

Bulletproof

MNGSX

Bulletproof

MNGSX

Bulletproof

MNGSX

Bulletproof

MNGSX

Bulletproof

Bulletproof

MNGSX

Bulletproof

MNGSX

Bulletproof

MNGSX

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities