There is a thread here at the Advanced Forum that deals with the 4G64 swap and stuff like that. You might find a lot of info there, so you might want to check it out.

 

I already read it a few times.. The info I needed wasnt in there...
=(

 

Since the heads are interchangeable b/t the 4G61(Colt), 4G63, and 4G64 I would guess that your compression height would be the same too. If the extra 6mm of deck height correlates exactly to the extra 6mm of upward stroke, then the copression height would HAVE to be the same. It would damn near have to be for the engine to run right w/ a 4G63 head swap to run right, and that has been done several times.

Since I have never done it tho, I can't say "Yes" or "No" for sure, but in the words of the Magic 8 ball, "All signs point to YES."

 

Thanks Lambert, but I really need to know for sure. Kinda like builiding an airplane, I need to know if the wings fit before I buy it.. Catch my drift?

 

Sure, I understand. I just can't think of any other dimension that could be changed that would affect the compression height of the piston. If it weren't the same then we'd have heard of problems by now. Either the pistons on a '64 would slap the head of a '63 swap or there would be several blown headgaskets out there from pistons that weren't swinging high enough on a stroker. You can't have all this interchangability and not have all the same dimensions on the rotating assembly.

I may be wrong, but as always, I doubt it.

 

DamonBoost..

So what is it that you are trying to do specifically? The groundwork has been laid for the 64 swap, math done on the pistons..etc. Ross makes them now, and supposedly JE is working on a set for another few guys.

The rods need to be machined for the pistons unless you are lucky enough to have a 6 bolt 4g64.

I'm working on 2 right now.. (Well one big money car and another basically stock that I'm getting ready to start.)

Let me know if I can help out..

 

Call Brian @ Wiseco, he'll be able to answer that for you for sure. We are building a Turbo LS Integra here and he friggen knows everything and has data to back it.

 

????

From what i have understood is that you can put a 4g63 rod and piston into the 4g64 block as long as the piston is big enough to fit in the 1.5mm bigger bore. I dont see where the machining would need to be made? The crankshaft to rod diameters are the same too. I need to spec my 4g64 crank maybe im completely wrong.....

 

Re: ????

From what i have understood is that you can put a 4g63 rod and piston into the 4g64 block as long as the piston is big enough to fit in the 1.5mm bigger bore. I dont see where the machining would need to be made? The crankshaft to rod diameters are the same too. I need to spec my 4g64 crank maybe im completely wrong.....

a 4g64 rod is 6mm longer then a 4G63 rod, and a 4G64 crank has 6mm more stroke then a 4G63 crank so if you do a 4G64 stroker you need to machine the piston wrsitpis up 6mm to account for the 6mm of stroke, or else the piston would pop 6mm above deck height

 

Re: Re: ????

a 4g64 rod is 6mm longer then a 4G63 rod, and a 4G64 crank has 6mm more stroke then a 4G63 crank so if you do a 4G64 stroker you need to machine the piston wrsitpis up 6mm to account for the 6mm of stroke, or else the piston would pop 6mm above deck height

The 4g64 and 4g63 both have the same size rods.... 5.906. The 4g64 has a 12mm stroke (6mm BDC and 6mm TDC) but what makes up for that is the 6mm deck height the 4g64 has...

The only problem that you would have is the bore... 4g64 = 1.5mm bigger

 

I posted the piston #'s in the "which crank for a 2.3" thread


Wiseco part #'s

4G63 2.3 = K571M (8.8-9.0:1)
4G64 pre92 rods = K564M (8.8:1)
4G64 93 up rod = K548M (9.3:1)

 

I got JE pistons for my 6bolt 2.4L with ceramic coating and gapless rings for less than $700usd... just thought I'd throw that in since folks seem to think custom made pistons are way more expensive than the regular batch.

I did have the engine shop order the pistons to spec though, and my block was bored over to at least 2mm+ over the 4G63.

 

I hate that i feel like I am advertising but, we carry WISCO pistons for the 4G64 to fi the 6 bolt and 7 bolt. The price includes the rings and we can even coat them.

To answer your question. Nothing changes between the motors short of the stroke and bore and it has no effect on the piston design shor tof the bore.

You have to remember that Mitsubishi made a Galant with the same DOHC head, using the same rods as the 4G63 adn the same designed, but higher compression, as the 4G63. The SOHC pistons will clear just fine using when using the DOHC head too but things do begine to change up some due to the valve clearances being somewhat different. But you can take a SOHC 4G64 and swap to the DOHC with no problems and no working needing to be done to the block other than blocking off the now unused oil return holes.

If anyone has anymore questions feel free to email me dirrectly to help keep the list clean unless you really think that it may be a question that would be realy helpfull to most people on the list.

Thanks,

 

I was doing some calculations assuming that the stock HG is 1mm thick and that the deck height is zero. I base the info on JE pistons the summit racing sells (86mm bore, 11.7cc dish and 9:1 CR). The 86.5 mm bore with 17cc dish wiseco pistons would lead to about 9.4:1 compression ratio. One would need approximately 22cc dish for 9:1 compression ratio or use a 1.6mm or thicker HG.

Also, this probably holds true for non-shaved block and head.

Again, I ASSUMED a few things, and you know what that means. If anybody has more information or more accurate numbers please enlighten me.

I would love to be able to buy a $400 set of off the shelf wisecos and eagle rods for my 2.4L motor.

Just my $0.02.

Good luck,

Stevan

 

I was doing some calculations assuming that the stock HG is 1mm thick and that the deck height is zero. I base the info on JE pistons the summit racing sells (86mm bore, 11.7cc dish and 9:1 CR). The 86.5 mm bore with 17cc dish wiseco pistons would lead to about 9.4:1 compression ratio. One would need approximately 22cc dish for 9:1 compression ratio or use a 1.6mm or thicker HG.

Also, this probably holds true for non-shaved block and head.

Again, I ASSUMED a few things, and you know what that means. If anybody has more information or more accurate numbers please enlighten me.

I would love to be able to buy a $400 set of off the shelf wisecos and eagle rods for my 2.4L motor.

Just my $0.02.

Good luck,

Stevan

Your talking about the pistons for use in the 4g64 block right, not the 2.3 liter (4g64 crank in a 63)?

I just wanted to make sure which part your talking about.

 

Ok here is the complete rundown....

4g63 pistons - 85mm or 3.346457in bore

4g64 pistons - 86.5mm or 3.405512in bore

if you take the two numbers and subtract you have
** 0.059055in or 1.499997mm diffrence **

-- anyone could have figured that out... if im correct i think there has to be a 0.006 side skirt clearance for the rings.....
-- So if you wanted to bore your block the least possible then here is what youd need to add....

-- 3.405512 + 0.006 = 3.411512
or for mm
-- 86.5 + 0.1524 = 86.6524

***That would be the block bore minimum ***

-- If you just wanted to get away with honing the block you'd do this method.... we call it subtraction

-- 3.405512 - 0.006 = 3.399512
or for mm
-- 86.5 - 0.1524 = 86.3476

There is the specs again of your bore if you wanted to try and get away with honing the block

So if you are doing the swap... i hope those specs are right.....

-- Another reason i mentioned the 4g63 piston size is because of this... i previously stated you could use 4g63 internals..... you still can but here is the catch....

-- that diffrence of 0.059055in or 1.499997mm.... add to the size of the 4g63 specs....

-- 3.346457in + .059055 -.006 = 3.399512
Now subtract that number from 3.346457
... must i do everything for yall 3.399512 - 3.346457 = 0.053055

That means you will need a .053055 (1.347597mm) oversized 4g63 piston to fit and work in the 4g64.....
-- Might as well get a .060 (1.524mm) over 4g63 piston... probably be cheaper than buying a 4g64 piston.


** If anything i have stated is wrong please correct me **

 

the 4G64 has a very slightly larger bore (4G63 is 3.347" (85.0mm), 4G64 is 3.4055"(86.5mm)), but more importantly, a much longer stroke (4G63 is 3.46" (88mm), while the 4G64 is 3.94"(100mm)). However, the 4G64 shares the same rods with the 2G 4G63T. Thus, the deck on the 4G64 is 6mm higher to compensate for the longer stroke. This is the major difference in the block. A deeper stroke means less balance at higher rpms. The 4g63 has a close ratio between bore and stroke meaning higher revs without damage. However, the 4G64 will produce more torque at the same RPM.

that is from this page...
http://4g64.150m.com/turbo.html

im thinking that might help with any rod questions down the road

 

Sorry. Yes I was talking about the 2.4 liter (86.5mmB and 100mm S). Thanks for all the good info.