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high egt's, no knock, good timing - breaking upi

1.1K views 6 replies 4 participants last post by  9_turbo_5  
#1 · (Edited)
car is breaking up between 6000 and 6500 in 2nd thru 4th. egt's climb to 850-900. o2's are .82-.86. timing is 18-22 deg. knock 0-4 counts. all this on a PTE gt35 at 30 psi and cheap-ass 110 fuel. when it breaks up boost will climb to 33-35 sometimes.

-8an lines, aeromotive a1000 pump, holley rail, fic 850's. fuel pressures from 38-45 had almost no effect on egt's or power. in fact egt's run 700-750 cruising at 0-5 psi with both 38 and 45 fuel pressures and 94 and 110 fuels. adding/subtracting fuel via dsm translator and s-afc aren't changing the logs much either. eprom is burned (Keydiver) for the 850's, higher idle, 9500 rev limiter, etc.

plug gaps from .030 to .025 produce same results. bp7es and msd 8.5mm wires, stock coils, and Ignition Solutions plasma booster in car.

car ranged from 14.2 at 102 down to 12.7 at 108 first time to track this season. times got better as 60's did (down to a 1.7)...new clutch, fresh engine, etc. everything has 200 miles on it. as soon as the turbo gets into it's power band i get ignition break-up and have to short shift the gears.

the fact that it doesn't do it in 1st makes me think it's the spark being blown out since it's not making full boost in 1st. but then the high egt's no-matter-what make me think...the ignition timing might be retarded and the exhaust valves are opening as the ignition is taking place, hence all the heat in the manifold. i'm going to check base timing and resistance readings from wires and coils....but these are the same parts that went 11.2 @ 126 last year with a smaller turbo, less boost, smaller head, intake, tb, piping, exhaust, etc. i'm dropping 10 mph just in the 1/8th from last year because i can't shift at 8500-9200 where i need to.

anyone have a similar experience or a clue as to why things just aren't adding up?:confused:
 
#2 ·
update:

car breaks up at 6500 in 2nd, about 7000 in 3rd and usually not at all in 4th now. base fp is 40. pushing 20psi on 94 octane with egt's getting into the low 800's.

car is pulling almost as hard on 20 psi as it did last year with the fp3055 at 28 psi. my guess is it would run mid-high 11's on 20psi... but still can't rev to where i need to.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Almost every time i've come across the problem your describing the culprit has been the plug wires. I'm not sure exactly why it is, but my car seems to go thru a set a year, and is already on it's second set this year. I replaced them in April, and in July i started to get misfires again. #1 was all fried and the metal connector broke into pieces when i pulled it out of the coil, and # 3 coil connector was all fried looking as well. I use the Bosch wires from autozone because they have an unlimited lifetime warranty, and i get a new set for free everytime they go to hell. You could measure the resistance of your plug wires for the heck of it,and/or replace them if they are a bit old. Also, try to keep wires 4&1 from touching wires 2&3, but it's ok for 4 to touch 1 or 2 to touch 3.

What is an Ignition Solutions plasma booster? Also, what was your ipw on the 30 psi and 20 psi runs?

but then the high egt's no-matter-what make me think...the ignition timing might be retarded and the exhaust valves are opening as the ignition is taking place, hence all the heat in the manifold.
Remember, when you misfire the fuel may not get ignited until it hits the red hot exhaust manifold, and you have an instant blowtorch on the egt probe. Do your o2 readings have lean spikes when the breaking up occurs as well? This occurs from the o2 sensor reading all the unburned o2 from the misfire. If you have these symptoms, i would say your problem is most likely spark related.
 
#4 · (Edited)
when it breaks up boost will climb to 33-35 sometimes.
Fuel exploding in the manifold/turbine housing could also cause this, similar to antilag. :)

Also, you may want to try a set of BR7ES plugs gapped @.28 instead of BP7ES. I've read it's a good idea to keep the resistor, and switching to a non-projected plug moves the spark "up" in the chamber slightly to help prevent it from being blown out. At 30+ psi BR8ES's might not be a bad idea.
 
#6 ·
redawdturbo:
Plasma Booster

I probably shouldn't say this, but it's the same booster Curt Brown ran...Just one of his secrets. basically a not-so-well-known HKS TwinPower amplifier.
i haven't logged pulse widths. will do that though. and yes, the o2 curve has low spikes during the break-ups. down to around .60 sometimes.

and i have been considering the br8es plugs since the runs this past week. i'm glad somone else is confirming the idea. the wires only have 2100 miles on them (1900 last year and 200 this year). but nonetheless i'm going to check them today.

thanks for the input guys. let me know if you think of anything else. and i'll get more complete logs and updates on the wires and plugs a.s.a.p.
 
#7 ·
well regarding your breaking up, ive had the same problem a couple times with mycar. I came out to be bad plug wires(insulation was jus shot, and a bad coil.

How to test - when the car is runnin, pop the hood and take each wire induvidually and remove it from the plug. be careful not to shock your self. but when you disconnect the wire from the plug, look at the same wire connected to the coil and see if there is any arching going on, and that should tell you what is going on. if the insulation on the wires is bad i recommend magnacor wires, but if you dont have the money at the time just wrap them tightly with electrical tape and that will fix the problem till you buy new wires. hope things work out Pz!