Umm, Mutts are kinda, well, trash and if you only gt 390 flywheel hp your not doing as good as you can. With a BR20g or Green you should expect to see traps around 117-121 with good tuning. Edit! I was talking race gas and more boost. Hmm, 19 psi...Id Guess low/mid 12's at maybe 110-113? so about 350 whp....say about 490 flywheel hp with a conservavtive 20% driveline loss.

 

mutt's are trash.??? can you explain why they are trash because i was about to buy the mutt m1 L3

 

Well. Th Mutt series went through a huge thing a while back. They were known for copying Forced Performance turbos...only they were inferior and tended to break and just be poorer all around. The new ones seem to be somewhat better but won't compare to the green for an awesome street turbo. However, MF1's are a great value, if you wanna try one out go for it. If you got on NABR and mentioned MUTTs theyed kick you off though, lol. if you have the money do it right, but if your on a budgt then try a MUTT.

 

if you have the money do it right, but if your on a budgt then try a MUTT.

what is considerd "doing it right"

here is my tentative setup

mutt M1L3, indy street core fmic, 660cc injectors evo exhaust manifold and o2 housing hks vpc and 255 lph fuel pump.

 

Tractionless says

"The problem with the mutt is it has been inbred, crossfed, and shitfed for so long, when you tell it to roll over it shits on the floor and begs" Z1500

My setiments exactly!!

keith
tractionless

 

A green is a better turbo then a mutt, this is pretty much a fact. So if you can afford it get the green. You obviously want to run 11's or faster, considering oyur turbo choices, and 11's on a internal are a BITCH, so you'll prolly need an external(although i dont know the effectiveness of the MF139 mm gate) so thats one advantasge down for the mutt. Your IC is a good choice, the injectors are right. You do not need a VPC. Their nice but a 2g MAS is 100 and will work fine for high 11's. The evo manifold is awesome. The evo 02 requires certain mods to your downpipe. Might wanna look for a tubular 02 housing. Since your gonna end up on an external neways. The fuel pump will make PLENTY of fuel but may require a adjustable FPR and will be loud as hell.

 

thanks

 

A green is a better turbo then a mutt, this is pretty much a fact. So if you can afford it get the green. You obviously want to run 11's or faster, considering oyur turbo choices, and 11's on a internal are a BITCH, so you'll prolly need an external(although i dont know the effectiveness of the MF139 mm gate) so thats one advantasge down for the mutt. Your IC is a good choice, the injectors are right. You do not need a VPC. Their nice but a 2g MAS is 100 and will work fine for high 11's. The evo manifold is awesome. The evo 02 requires certain mods to your downpipe. Might wanna look for a tubular 02 housing. Since your gonna end up on an external neways. The fuel pump will make PLENTY of fuel but may require a adjustable FPR and will be loud as hell.

Fact huh? And who has proven this to be a fact. I think that this is more your personal opinion of the turbo rather than a fact. The fact is that it hasn't been proven to be a good or bad turbo yet.

 

Tractionless Says

Greenstreak-
Why would anyone spend any $$$ on a unproven product? Especially such an expensive one.

Proven Turbos-
16g
Buschur 20g
Buschur 57
FP-
28
Green
Red
That is fact right there not opinion, if you say otherwise you are foolish.

keith
tractionless

 

i have a question if the mutt turbo is a garret t3/t4 turbo with a modified mitsubishi turbine housing wouldnt the essence of the turbo be proven in other applications.?? i know turbonetics,rps and others use garret turbos on supra,rx7 ect also know glazer uses a mutt in his talon would that not constitute a proven turbo.

how about this guy.??

The car made 500HP to the wheels on Extreme's Dynojet. Currently, the car has had limited time at the track. The best ET has been 10.86 and best MPH is 133. Keep an eye out for the car in future races. Jeff is looking to be a major competitor in the street class and he's going to try and do it without nitrous.

A word form Jeff:

It's been fun being a DSM driver and racer. I've met and continue to meet great people along the way, friends and competitors. I look forward to every race and could talk about the cars almost endlessly. I need to thank Sean at Extreme Motorsports for without his help, advice, and sponsorship, this rebuild would not have been as easy. The Extreme engine has provided an outstanding platform for the Mutt.

I tried new a turbo product last year from another vendor and was really let down when my buddy was running 11's on a 16g and I couldn't get out of the 12's on a bigger turbo. So I was very much a skeptic when I was first told the Mutt could get me into the 10's and be internally gated. It was going against everything everyone ever said about running an internal wastegate. Well, the proof is in the pudding and the turbo has more than proved itself. I look forward to the bigger turbo, going faster and shooting for 9's in a street car without nitrous.

My thanks to everyone at DSM performance for a great bolt on product.

Jeff Elliott "DNTBLNK"

We wish Jeff the best of luck for the rest of the race season and look forward to continue working with him getting his car down to the 9s.

 

Ok, my opinion is that MUTTs are trash. The fact is that Green's are proven turbos that run 10's with half the damn work put into the car. Get what you want, the green is the shit.

 

Here we go again with another fabulous turbo shit talkin episode!!!!!!! LOL! Buy what you like and do the best you can. But there really is no need to keep going back and forth about these turbos. Some are fast some are not. But the same turbo on 2 different cars can come out with2 totally different outcomes. I think this is where all the trash talkin comes from. You get a guy that slaps on a huge turbo without supporting mods and proper tuning and it runs like shit or is disappointingly slow and he bashes it all to hell. I know there are some other factors out there with some companies but who cares, do we really need to keep going over this crap?
Have a nice daaa aayyyyyy!!!

 

Re: Tractionless Says

Greenstreak-
Why would anyone spend any $$$ on a unproven product? Especially such an expensive one.

Proven Turbos-
16g
Buschur 20g
Buschur 57
FP-
28
Green
Red
That is fact right there not opinion, if you say otherwise you are foolish.

keith
tractionless

With the prices they are asking for the Mutts now I agree, I wouldn't want to risk money like that on something unproven. That is right, I agree, it is an unproven turbo like I said before. Not claiming it is good or bad. I will see what I can do, hopefully I am not disappointed in the outcome.

 

MUTTS suck ass. I've seen some morons at the track with they're sweet MUTTS, not impressive at all. Get a proven turbo like the others have said.

 

Dude, i could just follow maurice around and agree with him. om glad someone has the CORRECT opinions...Everyone else, your opinions are wrong!

 

is anyone speaking from experience here or are most of us expressing what we think.??? has anyone here purchased a mutt installed it,tuned their setup and then remove the mutt and gone with the fp green because until then your biased comments are just opinion.

 

is anyone speaking from experience here or are most of us expressing what we think.??? has anyone here purchased a mutt installed it,tuned their setup and then remove the mutt and gone with the fp green because until then your biased comments are just opinion.

Opinions are often based on the experiances of others. i hope youdon't have a single opion on any car youv'e ever not owned. In fact....don't change your timing belt at 60k, the belt definitley can last longer, have you ever tried it?

The point is...Ive never heardanyone not like the green, or if I have its uncommon. East coast or west coast style the green is the shit. No one likes the mutt, The NABR guys HATE it. FP hates it calls it an inferior reproduction. DP is known for copying and everyone says they are terrible. Riceboys and idiots run them. And few people who manage to squeeze out good times on a fully built raceeecar when there are street cars running low 11's left and right on greens and BR20g's.
Mutts are trash, thats my OPINION.

 

Mutt Level 1 Auto

I dont know what the hell you guys are basing your biased opinions on. I have a Mutt Level 1 AT. The portwork on it is excellent. With 550's, WebCams, stock IC, this Mutt has almost no lag, and great turbo responce for an automatic. Good low end as well even though my cams are so damn lumpy!~! This Turbo flows more than a Big16G at 15psi. I run 18 on pump gas and have low 1500degree egts. My timing advance always past 17 degrees.
Never does this turbo breathe hot air. Even when I had a bad boost leak last month, this turbo still shot 18psi like nothing. Maybe if I get another car i'll think about a green or a red. But for my setup, this Mutt is the shit. Anyways, don't put equipment down unless you bought it, and it either ran like shit or broke. Not just because its too expensive. My two cents anyway.

-jm

 

boosted, do you have any before/after times or dyno numbers?

 

t25 vs mutt lv1

As of right now NO. With my stock turbo with intake/exhaust bla bla I ran 14.8@96. That was like two years ago and ever since Ive been on the quest for 12's. Since then I have NO dyno runs and NO timeslips since then. My current setup is

Mutt level 1 (18 psi 92 octance chevron blue)
RC 550's
Walbro 255 (pos noisy)
WebCams street grind (even though theyre way lumpy)
titanium spring retainers
double valve springs
Injen intake
N1 Exhaust
plugs/wires yada yada
boost guage/egt guage
Split Second arm 1 air/fuel meter
S-AFC
Profec B
Pocket logger (kicks ass for $175)

Once I get my fuel trims down to 0 or +5 im going to the track again~!~ I wanted to finish my car before I went back to the track. I know some good dyno runs would benefit me as well, but hell, I live right next to a big 1/2 mile straight away When I collect some slips i'll scan em and

-jm

 

Re: Mutt Level 1 Auto

I dont know what the hell you guys are basing your biased opinions on. I have a Mutt Level 1 AT. The portwork on it is excellent. With 550's, WebCams, stock IC, this Mutt has almost no lag, and great turbo responce for an automatic. Good low end as well even though my cams are so damn lumpy!~! This Turbo flows more than a Big16G at 15psi. I run 18 on pump gas and have low 1500degree egts. My timing advance always past 17 degrees.
Never does this turbo breathe hot air. Even when I had a bad boost leak last month, this turbo still shot 18psi like nothing. Maybe if I get another car i'll think about a green or a red. But for my setup, this Mutt is the shit. Anyways, don't put equipment down unless you bought it, and it either ran like shit or broke. Not just because its too expensive. My two cents anyway.

-jm

People base opinion on what happen with others so we don't make the same mistakes. Its nice some one got a MUTT to work decently, best of luck, Im sure many people do. BUT...A TON of people have problems with them, way more then any FP turbo. And you still haven't been to the track and only have experiance with a T25, So actually, i don't find your opinion worth all that much for turbo comparison. Run a Green/8cm and see what you say.

 

yea

True I do only have track t25 experience. But I have been tuning my car with my mutt for about 6 months. I think I have it just were my timing advance needs to be. If I went to the track and ran 18 psi I know id be in the 13's. If I turn up the boost a little, with the perfect night, and some race gas.. well we will have to see. I will post some slips. If its any concellation I smoked an S2000, and he broke me off the line because I have an AT heh. Turbo all the way to red line, and it never creeps. can you tell me anything bad about this turbo? Most of the time when something doesnt work right, it was the installer, and not product.
-jm

 

ever heard of power braking?

 

heh your kidding right? Of course I do. Its really bad on my tranny though I know it. My tranny has no mods.........I usually trq brake it for about 3 seconds...builds about 8psi. Damn autos.......

 

no mods on your trannie!! Get a shift kit. It's only $75 and will save your trannie. You really don't want to kill your trannie. Maybe my car is a freak but it pulls 1.8 60fts with the stock converter and trannie. I can outlaunch just about anything most of the time. At least at the street. It power brakes to 24psi at 3800rpm with race gas. I have a shift kit but also still need an alto endclutch upgrade. I just ordered a High stall TC from dunrite. It stalls at 3000rpm, my stock stall was 2100rpm.. This new TC should give almost instant full boost off the line with out having to do power brakes. I don't even want to imagine how high it can be pushed. Most people claim power brakes of 4k rpm with it. How did your web cams work out? How much did they help top end? And did they hurt your low end at all?