I think that's about right. I know there are some sites on the net that give some estimates. I can't think of any, but do a google search and maybe you can find them. Maybe dsm.org has some info too. But you can probably get right up around 300 bhp with a 14b.

 

Go to www.machv.com and go to turbochargers and the turbo chart. It will give you an idea of how much hp each turbo will support.

 

I ran 12.46 @ 109. 6 on a 14b in a 3150 lbs car (including my wieght) which puts me at about 322 to the wheels. If you calculate for a conservative AWD driveline loss of *only* 20% you get about 400 at the crank.

Remember, shops make money by selling turbos. It's their job to convince you that the 14b is too small.

 

Damn right, gsxalex!

 

To add some more numbers... My 2g at 3300 pounds with me in it did the numbers in my sig. Comes out to 310 to the wheels. Smae 20% says about 385 at the crank. Leon R did 12.0 at 113 in a 1g, but I dont his weight...

 

95GSXracer has left The Milkman enlightened......

 

I ran 12.46 @ 109. 6 on a 14b in a 3150 lbs car (including my wieght) which puts me at about 322 to the wheels. If you calculate for a conservative AWD driveline loss of *only* 20% you get about 400 at the crank.

Remember, shops make money by selling turbos. It's their job to convince you that the 14b is too small.

wanna fill us in on your setup?

im worried that 450's will hold me up. doing the math, they can only support ~300hp.

-aaron

 

400HP at the crank with a 14B?? you gotta be on crack man lol

check out the machV site, the 14B will at the most give you 255HP at the wheels...it'll probably give you 300HP at the crank if you got a FWD.

 

400HP at the crank with a 14B?? you gotta be on crack man lol

check out the machV site, the 14B will at the most give you 255HP at the wheels...it'll probably give you 300HP at the crank if you got a FWD

And how do you explain all the guys that pull low 12's at around 110 mph? If you do the math they come up with a lot more that 255 hp AT THE WHEELS.

And obviously you didn't read what gsxalex wrote.

 

im worried that 450's will hold me up. doing the math, they can only support ~300hp.

We all know those formulas are so conservative its ridiculous. That would mean I have personally seen a car run 12.2 with 300 hp... I also saw a guy switch to 550s and got up in the high 12s. He had to switch back to 450s to get into the low 12s again. Injectors are very underestimated... Most people jump to bigger injectors too soon. How many people laughed at me when I said I would run high 12s on 450s... I had no signs of them being to small at that point.

400HP at the crank with a 14B?? you gotta be on crack man lol

check out the machV site, the 14B will at the most give you 255HP at the wheels...it'll probably give you 300HP at the crank if you got a FWD.

300 at the crank? Let's think about this. We all know that even the t25 can do at least 275. My 13.7 at 99 more than proves that. Now youre saying a 14b with over 100cfm more capacity can only get 25 more hp? I dont think so. And how did Leon run that 12.0 at 113 on 255 to the wheels? This shows just how badly poeple underestimate the 14b. As it was mentioned above it is the vendors' job to keep themselves in business by telling you a stock turbo is too small. Thats how they sell bigger ones

 

yea, seeing as though 550's can handle 20g power and buschur runs 660's on his 8.04 car...

however 1gs have low ass fuel pressure and i dont have money to raise it

we'll see...

-aaron

 

I ran 12.46 @ 109. 6 on a 14b in a 3150 lbs car (including my wieght) which puts me at about 322 to the wheels. If you calculate for a conservative AWD driveline loss of *only* 20% you get about 400 at the crank.

Remember, shops make money by selling turbos. It's their job to convince you that the 14b is too small.

Yea, I am also curious as to what set-up you have/had!

 

I saw a cheaply modded 14B 1G AWD make 298HP/330ft-lbs torque at the wheels on a Dynojet in FWD mode. Stock injectors, slightly modded 1G SMIC, no AFC. Car runs 12s, best trap speed of 108.6 mph. Don't underestimate what the 14B can do in the hands of someone who knows wtf they are doing.

 

91eclipsegsx16boy - geez, long name...have you thought about putting a non turbo fuel pressure regulator in place of the stock fpr? 36 --> 47 psi for about 5 bucks. any junkyard will have one. very easy way to up the fuel pressure.
with a n/t fpr, my 550's with my big 16g are at about 80-85% max at 18-19psi.

marshall
streetdynamics.com

 

91eclipsegsx16boy - geez, long name...have you thought about putting a non turbo fuel pressure regulator in place of the stock fpr? 36 --> 47 psi for about 5 bucks. any junkyard will have one. very easy way to up the fuel pressure.
with a n/t fpr, my 550's with my big 16g are at about 80-85% max at 18-19psi.

marshall
streetdynamics.com

marshall would it be worth to do the same on a stock 90 gsx. would i gain anything or just make it run pig rich? What exaclly i have to change, just the pressure regulator? Is it just a straight swap? Do I need to change anything else?

 

I actually dyno'd my 94 Tsi this past weekend on an AWD mustang dynamometer. I wasnt planning on runing until the last minute so i went unprepared with pump gas. First pull, the afc was 0'd out and the boost was at 14psi. The car put down 244.6 hp at the wheels... i understand awd drivtrain loss is about 30% so that should work out to 350hp at the flywheel! This is on a ported 14b set at low boost. Next couple runs I turned the boost up but the ecu didnt like it due to the pump gas and cut my timming back. Next time i dyno, ill be sure im on 110+ and cap off the wastegate in hopes of getting 300 to the wheels.

Attia
94 Tsi
98 Supra Turbo

 

91eclipsegsx16boy - geez, long name...have you thought about putting a non turbo fuel pressure regulator in place of the stock fpr? 36 --> 47 psi for about 5 bucks. any junkyard will have one. very easy way to up the fuel pressure.
with a n/t fpr, my 550's with my big 16g are at about 80-85% max at 18-19psi.

marshall
streetdynamics.com

Yeah, but does the NT FPR raise fuel pressure with boost. I wouldnt think that it would. Seems kinda odd to have a fpr that raises fuel pressure with boost when it is on a non-boosting vehicle.

 

yes it appears we have this mysterious gap. Math claims the 14b can only flow so much air.. yet the math on peoples trap speed claim they are making much more power. The gap is too far to be mathematical approximations, in my opinion. I think the only logical explanation is that we dont' lose as much power to the drivetrain as we actually think. Sure, when our cars are stock we lose about 20-25% through the AWD drivetrain, but once we start modding our cars, I think it becomes much less. It's hard to prove this though because how do you measure HP at the crank? It's very hard. We got the 25% number by dynoing our cars stock and seein what hp we go compared to the stock crank hp. But once we start making mods, we never measure the crank Hp again. We can only dyno to find HP at the wheels. I think the loss of power at the wheels is probably a set constant number plus a small percentage. Say maybe 20hp is a constant loss, plus 5% of whatever your crank HP is. This would make alot more sense, and also it would make the HP numbers of the 14b much more believable. 250hp at the wheels is now about 285hp at the crank.. much more believable... there's no way ironnfist is making 350hp at the crank at 14psi on a 14b.

 

I'm not postive on this but... A NT FPR will lower pressure with vacuum, 1 to 1 obviously. Thats why you have to disconnect the vac line to set base pressure... I dont see why it wouldnt be able to raise it with boost, or pressure on the diaphram in the other direction...

 

marshall-
increasing the fuel pressure that much sans afc would have some negative affects on daily driving that im oppossed to.

thanks for suggestion though.

also, drivetrain loss is in fact reduced %-wise as power increases.

-aaron

 

Make sure you're taking into account the type of gas being used, too. 400hp on 116 octane isn't 400hp on 91 octane.

 

>>also, drivetrain loss is in fact reduced %-wise as power increases.

BS. A 10hp car wouldn't have enough power to turn the rollers on the dyno. There is defenitely a constant factor involved, and the percentage is probably not linear.

 

yes it appears we have this mysterious gap. Math claims the 14b can only flow so much air.. yet the math on peoples trap speed claim they are making much more power. The gap is too far to be mathematical approximations, in my opinion. I think the only logical explanation is that we dont' lose as much power to the drivetrain as we actually think. Sure, when our cars are stock we lose about 20-25% through the AWD drivetrain, but once we start modding our cars, I think it becomes much less. It's hard to prove this though because how do you measure HP at the crank? It's very hard. We got the 25% number by dynoing our cars stock and seein what hp we go compared to the stock crank hp. But once we start making mods, we never measure the crank Hp again. We can only dyno to find HP at the wheels. I think the loss of power at the wheels is probably a set constant number plus a small percentage. Say maybe 20hp is a constant loss, plus 5% of whatever your crank HP is. This would make alot more sense, and also it would make the HP numbers of the 14b much more believable. 250hp at the wheels is now about 285hp at the crank.. much more believable... there's no way ironnfist is making 350hp at the crank at 14psi on a 14b.

i dont how you came to the assumption that drivetrain loss is less when the car has more mods. The drivetrain loss remains the exact same considering you didnt modify the drivetrain. Thats simple physics.

As far as me not making that much HP on the 14b.. i ran a 109 trap at 16psi on 104 octane. Using the HP calculator thats on dsm.org:
hp = weight * (speed / 234)^3
hp = 3400 * (109/234)^3
hp = 344

so thats 344 horse at 16psi.... and ive done some other mods since that timeslip and before the dyno.

Attia
94 Tsi AWD
98 Supra Turbo

 

CHECK THIS OUT!!!!!!!!!

EVERYONE QUIT ARGUING AND LOOK AT THIS.....

www.boostedperformance.com

they are running 12.08 with slicks in the quarter on stock 14B turbo. It can be done.

 

>>i dont how you came to the assumption that drivetrain loss is >>less when the car has more mods.

I'm saying I don't think you lose a fixed percentage. At stock 195hp level, the loss may be near 25%, but when you're making 350hp, the loss will be less than 25%.