I just unscrew the rear line before my ss lines at the rear wheels and still no oil going there ? Pedal is still stiff and front brakes working ! I'll try to unscrew one of the rear line at the prop valve and we'll see if oil is going into the lines ... Don't know what else to try ...

 

That's about all you can do. Seems like you have a blockage somewhere. Next would be to disconnect at the equalizer and see if it drains or blow it out.

Interested to know what you find.

 

Edit: From this site my lines from the master to the valve are the opposite ? I'm still looking into my manual and it's the opposite of this site ? F**K http://codsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3358

I'll try to unscrew one of the rear line right at the valve and see if something goes out ... Damn oil ...

 

No oil is coming out right at the valve !? I think my line are inverted, can someone confirm where the hose on the master near the booster is going on the valve ?

 

I'm all alone and can't really do shit ! Now I think my brake master isn't working, don't really want to unscrew both feed line from the valve and test them one at the time while I'm alone. I'll give it a try tomorow with someone ... Fuck, nothing can be easy ... Feels like I won't be able to roll before winter comes in

 

Yeah I agree it's best to have someone push the pedal as you're examining the issue. I don't like stray brake fluid squirting everywhere.

 

Thanks for the support Red

I think my master isn't working right, like if there was no oil coming out of the secondary port. Pretty sure the primary port is for the front brakes ...

 

Thankfully they're not too hard to pull. Good luck with the issue. I'll check back on this thread tomorrow.

 

Has the car been run recently? Sometimes I've seen vehicles where the front brakes will work without booster power but the rear brakes will not.

 

No car hasn't run since last summer my friend ... Should I try to start the car before replacing the brake master ?

 

I don't really have a good answer for you unfortunately as I don't really know why the car was doing it. I know some cars have a kind of safety blockoff in the distribution valve so I don't know if that had something to do with it or what. The master failure is 99% of the time leaking back through the bore, I can't say i've ever heard of a master failing where one set of brakes worked but not the other.

 

Has the car been run recently? Sometimes I've seen vehicles where the front brakes will work without booster power but the rear brakes will not.

I think you could be right my friend, I'm still reading and I now know why it could have work when the engine is running. In a manual I'm ready it cleary say:

Make the adjustment with the engine running to ensure the booster
has vacuum. The booster body will change shape when a vacuum is
applied and may reduce the clearance for rod adjustment.

This information come from http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake05.pdf on page 17 ...

Damn I never tough it would be that hard ... I guess this car will teach me something new every time I work on it ...
Got to love DSM ...

You know all this crap that is happening is just making me want to run a Buschur kit and delete the booster haha

 

Pretty sure there's no check valve or things like that in the prop valve because I remember cleaning it and passing air into it. I remember it's only some kind of "T" to make it simple.

I've search yeasterday and I found that the master could be the probleme, we don't have 2 hoses comings out of it for fun. One is primary port, one is secondary port (that one is near the booster). Looks like there's no oil coming out of the secondary port. That master is new but it's not an OEM one. Didn't wanted to spend the big buck because I want to run a 3g one in the future. I even check the clearance and tolerance before putting it on to be sure that it match the booster, just like in the manual.

I have to admit I didn't bench bleed it before installing it, maybe I would have seen something ...

 

I just talked with my machinist at the shop who built cars for years and he think it could be the rod from my booster that is pushing on the brake master piston. If it push too much on the piston well the secondary port will never get feed with oil !

Do you see where this is going ? Before replacing the master I'll try to unscrew the rod on the booster just a bit. I tryed to mesure everything when I installed it but it's hard to mesure in a round hole ...

 

Ok since I'm not ready to start the car to test that sh*t I just ordered a hand vacuum pump. With that tool I'll be able to put 18-21 Hg of vacuum on the booster just like if the car was running on idle. I than will be able to mesure or adjust the rod if the master still isn't pushing oil ...

Got to start somewhere ...

A kit just like this, cost me 45$ and I'll have it in my hand this afternoon

 

I 'd rather use a bleeder such as the Motive (if it still on the market edit:yes it is, see below) to pressurize the brake fluid at the reservoir. That way you would accomplish a) not needing another person to operate the brake pedal b) test (and bleed) the braking system regardless of the brake booster.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/frame-bleeders.htm

Does that kit also build positive pressure other than just vacuum? I bought one a while ago to pressure test something and I can't remember what for the life of me!

 

Nop, from the gauge on it, it only reads vacuum. I'll see what my seller have to propose me first and let you know but I'm pretty sure the model I posted is only for vacuum.

I have Russel speed bleeder everywhere (caliper and clutch slave) so bleeding my brakes alone should not be a probleme when all the lines are connected haha

I have a couple idea to test, I also have an other master on the 94 talon ...

 

Well, the idea is to pressurize the master cylinder without having to depress the brake pedal. The speed bleeder do help a lot, but you're not going to be able and check when the fluid comes out clean and without bubbles especially on the passenger side if you also have to kick the brake pedal.

 

I've got this one for vacuum/pressure testing

Mityvac MV8500

 

The kit I posted also is a self brake bleeder kit so don't worry about this
I'm more worried about the fact that there's no oil in the lines :rofl:

Pretty much the same thing I should receive in a few minutes ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2-Jar-H...907320673?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item51b3b4c961&vxp=mtr#ht_2995wt_1433

Product Details:

- Include the parts of brake bleeder, easily bleed brakes by yourself.
- Can be used to bleed hydraulic systems or siphon fluids.
- Checks vacuum/ pressure operated automotive components.
- Brass cylinder and cylinder head.
- Vacuum/ pressure pump and brake bleeding kit.
- Replaceable O-ring cylinder head gasket, rubber piston ring and valves.
- Pressure range: Positive pressure. 0 to 3inHg; Negative pressure: 0 to -1inHg.
- The body was the switch to control two kinds of pressure conditions.
- The pressure gauge is encased in a rugged rubber boot which provides protection for both gauge(to insure accuracy) and vehicle surfaces.


Hoo sorry my friend, didn't knew you already had a kit haha

Anyway it's not to bleed caliper that I order this crap, it's only to put vacuum on my brake booster to see if the rod lenght will change. I can't start the car for now so I had to found a way to put vacuum in the booster. I posted a link that explain why maybe 4-5 post ago ...

 

Anyway it's not to bleed caliper that I order this crap, it's only to put vacuum on my brake booster to see if the rod lenght will change. I can't start the car for now so I had to found a way to put vacuum in the booster. I posted a link that explain why maybe 4-5 post ago ...

I got that, but this way you're going to find out if the brake booster holds vacuum while I am not sure if the vacuum generated that way will allow you to operate the master cylinder effectively as long as needed to diagnose it.

You will have to bleed the brake system eventually since you disconnected the lines at the proportional valve.

Please post your results as it will be interesting to learn about the capabilities of the mighty MV8500 (I confess mine is up there in the attic BNIB along with 99% of my performance parts).

 

Seller had 2 kit, a cheap chinease vacuum one for 45$ and the Mityvac MV8500 for 65$ who does vacuum and boost.

Mv8500 in my hand FTW, will see what happen tonight

 

Haha yeah I'll keep you updated

What I want to try first is put 18 to 20Hg of vacuum in the booster and push the brake pedal to see if there is oil coming out of both ports on the master. If it doesn't well I'll try to adjust the rod to be sure that it's not pushing on the piston.

Then I'll be done cause it'll be working !

 

Ok I putted vacuum to the booster and it didn't change anything.

I checked the rod adjustment and it seems in spect. I disconnected my ss line on the prop valve and bench bleed the master in place. Got to love ss line. No change no oil exit the ports for the rear right at the valve. I had both rear hose disconnected and no oil in the port while my friend pump and hold the pedal.

Then I decided to swap the feed line right at the prop valve. Guess what !? No oil for the rear and still build pressure on the front caliper.

Proportional valve is bad !

 

Got the valve in my hand now, how can I test it ?

It will be hard to say but I'll give a try. On the valve there is 2 feed ports, each feed is for a side of the car. So it's not front and rear but driver or passenger side.

I putted 100psi of aire into each feed and it only comes out from the front caliper ports. Even if I block the front caliper port, nothing wants to exit for the rear. It's doing this on both side ...

Maybe I'm not thinking right but I don't think it's normal. If we can bleed our system with the kit posted in this thread, there's no reason why 100psi wouldn't pass.

That's it for tonight ...

 

Made an other quick test this morning here at the shop, we hooked some lines to the valve and tryed to suck fluid with my MV8500 from the ports for the rear brakes. Like I tought no oil exit those ports at 30Hg vacuum ... Vacuum stay build, nothing pass in the valve.

That confirm me that the prop. valve is bad. Seems to be stuck because yes there are some kind of check in this. Sean was right as usual haha

By the way, I forgot to say this but the prop. valve I have is a used one that my friend gave me when he parted his car. What an asshole haha

Ordering a new valve right now !

 

While I do pride myself on being right as much as possible, I would make sure that you can't remove the valve and blow air back through it reverse direction the fluid flows.

 

Already done my friend, I tryed to push back aire from the rear caliper ports and still nothing, 100psi is way over what it normally takes to push back the caliper piston in ...

The last thing I could do is tap all the ports on the valve with NPT thread, use some plugs and adaptors I have at my hydraulic shop and put 2000psi in it on the test bench. But that would be useless after the test we did this morning with my vacuum pump ... The poppet or check in the valve is stuck we are 100% sure.

Thanks for everything Sean, always there to give me a hand my friend I highly appreciate it !

Sean boss level :rofl:

 

Any way to poke out the passages with a piece of wire or something else?

 

Not without disassembling it, when it's in your hand it's more easy to see how it works. My friend nothing pass in both direction.

My pick-up has been schedule for the valve, I hope they will have time today ...

 

Haha, fair enough. Love it.

 

I haven't pulled one before for being bad. I was thinking you could break the check valve ball free or something. I'd have thought since it's a proportioning valve that it would have had different sized orifices or something.