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Aarontsiawd

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi,
I have a 1993 Talon Tsi AWD. I've owned this car for about 13 years and have had no problems with it, until now. I have maintained it well myself (timing belt, oil changes, CV joint replacement, etc.) and am somewhat familiar with the various parts of the car. Here's what's been happening the past few weeks :
It starts, idles and runs great but every so often, it will bog down and have no power. The check engine light comes on and smoke pours out the tailpipe. When it does this, there's virtually no throttle reponse and downshifting doesn't help either - the revs will NOT increase regardless of how much you press the throttle. This problem lasts anywhere from a few seconds to about 30 seconds, then it instantly goes back to normal. When I mean instantly, I mean just that - if I'm pressing hard on the throttle when it goes back to normal, it will really jump and take off immediatley, not like a gradual recovery. It seldom does it more than once or twice a day. When it occurs, the engine still seems to be running somewhat smoothly - like all 4 cylinders are still firing but just not making any power.
It does it in all weather, wet or dry, hot or cold. In any gear, at any speed. I've had it happen when pulling away easily from a stop light or just cruising down the highway in 5th. It does seem to happen a bit more often when I accelerating hard, but not always.
Engine temperature makes no difference, cold or warmed up. There's no noises, other than the sound of the engine bogging. I use premium fuel and the fuel filter was recently changed. Plugs and wires are good. The K&N airfilter was cleaned but that made no difference.
I can't figure out what is causing this, what is happening, and why it suddenly stops. It seems to be a completely random event. Any ideas? Thanks.
 
Well sir, i welcome you to the far away land of my cars. I have had this issue on both of my cars. A 90 GSX and a 95 TSI.

The issue on the 90 had a plethora of issues that i changed all at once. I had a tested and proven bad CAS, 1g maf i changed, which i have 0 faith in whatsoever anyway, and the dill hole who i bought it from with his ghetto battery relocation on 12 gauge wire. The issue i had on the 95 was the fuel pump. Both of these vehicles would pull boost and in total FREQUENT randomness have limited power. Both of these vehicles were stock at the time and both under 120k miles.

Without a way to log, and with it being intermittent, thus no way to pull a code, makes this all extremely hard to diagnose. I would do the basics, boost leak test for sure. I could be wrong, but possibly phantom knock?

BTW what color is the smoke and is it building boost when this happens? If you wouldn't mind, take of the intake pipe from the filter to the turbo and give the shaft a wiggle.
 
Maybe a bad knock sensor, the 1G sensor is known to go bad on a regular basis every couple of years, remove it and see if the black resin is leaking from it. Could be a bad mass air sensor also, do check your codes to see what you have going on though.
 
I have never had this happen on a DSM but when it happened on my old Pontiac it turned out to be the fuel pump going bad.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the responses. I'm leaning away from a secondary ignition problem because the car seems to continue to hit on all cylinders, it's just not making any power. The fuel pump could be a cause but in all of the cars I've ever had, electric pumps just quit - they don't falter or cycle bad/good. The same with the air - I can't figure out what would cause such a sudden decrease in air flow only to have it spontaneously recover fully.
I've done a little internet research and the knock sensor (as mentioned) seems to be a possible culprit. If this was malfunctioning, could/would it pull the timing back a whole bunch, then recover and continue to operate normally? Is there a way to test it? Where is it located on the block and can I expect it to snap off or break if I try to remove it?
Thanks again for the responses.
 
Knock sensor is on the back of the block behind the air conditioner compressor, never saw one break off coming out, no good way to test it, you have to remove it and look at it for dripping black goo, yes it can pull timing 20* or more and make the car a pig. Have you checked your codes yet?
 
The sensor itself on a 1g works like a microphone and listens to the block, the ecu has code to allow the normal engine sound characteristics for a particular engine to be ignored or filtered out by applying filters to the knock sensor input, the black goo is a semi liquid dampener that is applied to the knock sensor during manufacture to keep the sensor from being overly sensitive, over time the heat from the engine can cause the black goo to return to its liquid state and it will run out of the sensor because of gravity causing the sensor to become overly sensitive to normal engine vibration/sounds.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
The weather has been steadily cold, so I have not had a chance to crawl under and work on the car. However, I have noticed a pattern to this bogging down - it will do it just about everytime I drive the car after it has fully cooled down. If the engine is still warm when I go to drive it, the bogging doesn't occur. The bogging usually occurs just after the engine has reached operating temperature, about 5 - 10 minutes from starting out. As mentioned before, it doesn't matter what gear I'm in or at what speed. It bogs for a few seconds (which seems like an eternity when I'm in traffic and can't accelerate), there is NO boost regardless of how much I push on the throttle, then suddenly, everything reverts back to normal.
Would this still point to a knock sensor problem?
Thanks again for the responses.
 
I had very similar issue's with my 1990 whenever I first got it. Turned out the issue was trash in the gas tank. It would do the exact same thing. I would be cruising and all of a sudden I would lose alot of power, Then out of nowhere it would clear up and the car would take off like a rocket. If I was at idle when it did this the car would idle like I was running 274 cam's. Only difference is that my car would build boost but did not make any power.

I took the car to the track one time and put 5 gallon's worth of race gas in the tank. Since then the problem has not occured.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Update: I pulled the code (using a VOM) and got a code 44 which I believe is Ignition coil or Transistor (according to this website: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...ing/190021-diagnostic-testing-without-scantool-cel-testing-1g-turbo-models.html).
Do you guys think this could be the problem? I've never heard of a coil problem that cycled on/off like my problem does and only happens about once a day.
If so, how would I determine whether the issue is the coil or the transistor (are they in the same pack?)?
Thanks.
 
They are two different components, they rarely go bad though. Is there a chance that maybe you unplugged a coil or a coil wire with the engine running for some reason like to test for spark or something? this can set a code, of course if your actually getting intermittant spark then the knock sensor will pick up the misfire as knock and pull timing. I would clear the code and drive it and see if it comes back.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
This problem is a real PIA. The best way to experience it would be to lug your engine. At 20 MPH, put it into 5th and try to accelerate. The engine is all but unresponsive and no boost builds.
I will drive the car for a few days then check the codes again.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
I had a chance to take a look today. The knock sensor (if I'm looking at the right thing) seems to be pretty difficult to access. I was able to blindly reach around under the intake manifold and managed to get a picture.

Image

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It has some sort of 'goop' (technical term) running down the bottom of it. It's thicker than grease and reminds me of Permatex gasket sealer. Could this be the goop inside the sensor that is leaking out?

Any suggestions on how to access the knock sensor? It looks like I'll have to remove the intake, but I hope not. Coming from the bottom, there's all kinds of brackets and stuff in the way - I can't even get my hand in far enough to touch it. Thanks again for all the help.
 
Has anyone ever located and resolved the cause of the random/intermittent power loss (without smoke) along with CEL and pulling a code 44? It seems threads are ending with no solution found and posting has stopped for the past few years. Would appreciate any insight available from anyone who has solved this random loss of power problem. Thank you.
 
UPDATE: Wasn't able to post this sooner. ECM was fine and not cause of problem. Issue partly resolved with a new Ignition Coil Pack. Not long after learned it is always recommended to replace both coil pack and Ignition Control Module at the same time when either goes bad. Replaced the CM and all is good. Hope this may help others with similar performance issue.
 
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