[99gsxturbo]

Ok, I was just thinking the other day about how much more power dsm's are capable of running higher boost. This is why we have dual stage boost controllers and scramble boost. This is great, but most of us run 93 octane fuel on a day to day basis, so by upping the boost our cars may actually run slower because the extra boost is creating knock.
My idea:
Have a small fuel cell in your car with race gas in it, c-16 would be my choice, then have some way to switch between gas tanks on the fly, like the larger pickup trucks. This way you can up the boost and be running higher octane fuel without having to stop or even get out of your car. It would add a little weight, and you would need another fuel pump, but I think it would be a cool setup.

 

[Airpoppoff]

sounds way to expensive for me, why dont you just run a propane injection setup????

 

[loreak]

yeah thats what they have water/alky/propane injection which would be alot cheaper

 

[Deusxmachina]

Yes, it's been done. Just maybe not on a DSM. A V8 guy told me a story of racing a Grand National for fun on the street. First race, they were even. Then the second race he uses his big shot of nitrous but was still even. Turns out the GN guy switched to his second fuel tank and upped the boost on his cockpit boost controller before the next stop light.

 

[Defiant]

There was the Smokey Yunick story about NASCAR suspecting him of running "extra" fuel, so they hauled him into tech inspection, drained the gas tank, drained the carbs, and made sure he was legal.
Then without refueling, he started it up and drove it back to his pits.

 

[K_Mans_TSI]

for the money involved an alcohol/water system would be a much better setup.

although if you made it, then patented it, and sold it....some one WOULD buy it

 

[colonelfox]

I really don't think that would be very expensive. I think all you'd really need is a fuel cell, switch, extra fuel line, and a few other things. Close to the fuel rail, tee the main fuel line, and the C16 line together then one line the the rail. You'd need to have check valves in the C16 line and the regular fuel line to avoid backwashing and contaminating either system. Have a switch in the cockpit to turn off the stock fuel pump, and switch on the c16 pump at the same time. It would have to be a fast acting switch though to avoid stalling out the car due to fuel shortage. Or flip on the c16 switch, and then shut off the stock pump switch. You'd have a very rich condition for the time it takes to shut down one or the other.

 

[K_Mans_TSI]

for the same effect you can get a 4" section of 2" exhaust pipe, a dsm injector, a dsm fuel pump, a 30 dollar switch, some line/clamps. 2 hours of work and a small bottle and have a working/tested system

 

[eyebrowski]

i was thinking about it for a while. what i came up with was a system that would use a 2 gallon tank in the spair tire spot and an external fuel pump. wire the external pump to the stock pump and make a switch that cuts the ground to the pump you want to shut off. you would then need a Y pipe before the fuel rail with either two on/off solenoids or a flapper. and then you would also need a return line with a similar Y as the feed line. after that it is just wiring to get all the solenoids to work together with a switch.

 

[99gsxturbo]

I personally dont think that this system is really a big money saver or anything like that, but another reason i was thinking that it would be a good idea is because you could install a 3 gallon cell, and drop your gas tank before you go to the track, I'm not sure how much the factory tank weighs, but I'm sure that it is a significant amount. If I wanted a cheap way to go faster, then I would run either a 50 shot or alky/propane injection. I just thought that it would be cool to run twin tanks on a dsm. I know if I had race fuel available to my car at any time i would be changing O2 sensors and plugs every day.

 

[eyebrowski]

personally i really like the idea. i dont believe dropping the fuel tank is fesable...way to much of a hassle with the pump and all, i believe there are supports in the way too. but you could drain it... it would be great on the street too, especially if you do any racing.

 

[sknydave]

A lot of people run seperate pumps and fuel cells for nitrous etc.

 

[ElectronVTEC]

Oooook, let's get somethin straight here folks... water/alky injection is absolutely NO replacement for C16. I've used both and I've chucked my WI system because it doesn't even come close to C16 and was way too finicky for me. Possibly a bad design but it's not quite as simple as "buy x, y, and z and 2 hours later you've got WI". I for one think it's a very viable and neat idea to run dual tanks, sure it would be more expensive but I'd bet it'd be worth it. EV.

 

[eyebrowski]

does anyone know of any electronic valves we could use at the Ys?

 

[exTSi]

I really like the idea. That way you're not cheating by using some other type of fuel, you've still got gas. It's funny cuz I was thinking about how I'd like to have this for my car and then I saw the thread. Most people don't boost their cars very high during normal driving conditions (on low octane fuel) and if they do, they experience knock which isn't good for anything under the hood. When you want to turn to the boost up, using useful fuel that will actually burn instead of combusting under compression would be a nice thing to have at the flip of a switch. I remember my dad's F-250 had duel fuel tanks (but were not very reliable) and you can be smaller/lighter tanks... This could be done very affordably.
Here's something I found at Holley, all you'd need is a pump, lines, fittings, valve and switch. And of course extra tank with C16
Dual tank fuel pump kit
I'm sure the junkyard would be a good place to check

 

[Bigfoot]

There was the Smokey Yunick story about NASCAR suspecting him of running "extra" fuel, so they hauled him into tech inspection, drained the gas tank, drained the carbs, and made sure he was legal.

I once saw Smokey tell a story about how NASCAR would regulate the fuel tank capacity, but not the fuel line size. So he ran a one inch fuel line all over the car and got several extra gallons. He was great.

I had that race gas tank idea when I was 14 years old. My dad talked me out of it because it would not be available on demand. This was in the pre-computer days. It would work much better now.

 

[James92TSi]

I think the best way to run it to the rail would be to run a check valve in the line coming from each pump, T them together at the back of the car, and run one feed line to the front of the car. You'd have to turn the second pump on for second before turning the original pump off if you wanted to keep the motor running... just switching over without priming the other pump first would stall the car.

The only real problem I see is with the return line. When you switch over to race gas, your return line still runs from the rail back to the main tank. Which means whatever race gas gets bypassed by the FPR will run back to your main tank, not the race gas tank. This is an issue if you're looking to get the most fun out of your race gas, since a lot of it will just be dumping back into the main tank. You could run two return lines and figure out a way to switch between them when you switch fuel pumps... but good luck with that. I don't have any ideas.

I've seen this done before on nitrous cars, but it's a lot easier since it's two separate fuel systems. You have a fuel cell with race gas that just feeds the nitrous system. The injectors still get pump gas when you're on the button, and the nitrous system is jetted a bit rich since it's the only source of race gas. The big issue there is priming the fuel pump up before going on the button. Just like nitrous lines need to be purged, you don't want any delay in getting the fuel in there when you're already spraying nitrous. Run power to the fuel pump off of your purge switch and you take care of it... fuel pump gets primed when you purge nitrous. Run a second FPR for the nitrous fuel system, and a second return line back to the fuel cell. Pretty sick way to run a big shot if you ask me.

 

[K_Mans_TSI]

Oooook, let's get somethin straight here folks... water/alky injection is absolutely NO replacement for C16. I've used both and I've chucked my WI system because it doesn't even come close to C16 and was way too finicky for me. Possibly a bad design but it's not quite as simple as "buy x, y, and z and 2 hours later you've got WI". I for one think it's a very viable and neat idea to run dual tanks, sure it would be more expensive but I'd bet it'd be worth it. EV.

although i see your point and agree with you somewhat, race gas of any type is NOT an economical alternative to reducing knock. especially on the street.

 

[ElectronVTEC]

Who said anything about economics . I never said it would be a cheaper alternative, I just don't want anyone running around thinking a $150 WI system is better than running either 92 or C16 depending on the situation, that's all. EV.

 

[robvas]

I remember a Car Craft article about some sleeper 70's Corvette

At the light, the guy would hit one switch and it would open up the exhuast from stock piping+mufflers to dumps.

Then he'd hit another switch and it would switch to another gas tank in which had race fuel of some sort.

They had an entire section on making a sleeper.