I think the point he's trying to make is, once you actually get these l19 studs for 200 bux you have to get the nut and washer kits, AND deal with purchasing enough to make an order, making a1's an easier choice.

Keep in mind up until last month A1's were in the 275 dollar range...making them the same price that you're getting ARPs for, but demand rose prices.

 

Where the hell are you getting this information? I never said they would be exactly $200 - I just don't think they will be more than that. And who said they didn't come with washers, nuts, and moly lube? It's funny how you act like you know what's going on with my personal L19 stud deal.....

According to 99gst_racer, his L19's DO come with washers, nuts, and moly lube.

 

According to 99gst_racer, his L19's DO come with washers, nuts, and moly lube.

^ That was my impression. Maybe I need to go back and read this again?


I thought I had a firm grasp on the fact this was a middle ground, a standard 12mm stud in L19, but coming with the nuts/washers/lube for $200.

???

 

I think the point he's trying to make is, once you actually get these l19 studs for 200 bux you have to get the nut and washer kits, AND deal with purchasing enough to make an order, making a1's an easier choice.

Keep in mind up until last month A1's were in the 275 dollar range...making them the same price that you're getting ARPs for, but demand rose prices.

No, I won't be getting them for $200; If everything goes as planned, I should be able to sell them for around $200 with the washers, nuts, and lube. We'll see though. At this point I offer no garuntee. I spoke with ARP again today, and I should have pricing worked out by this afternoon or tomorrow.

It's a shame that the A1's took a recent price jump. For the old price, I'd probably just shut my mouth and buy them.

 

^ That was my impression. Maybe I need to go back and read this again?


I thought I had a firm grasp on the fact this was a middle ground, a standard 12mm stud in L19, but coming with the nuts/washers/lube for $200.

???

Although I'm not exactly sure what you're confused about, that might be a good idea.

Do some research on L19/H11 steel too. I'm under the impression it is the exact same material. I have no idea what this "middle ground" 12mm L19 stud thing is...unless you consider 1/2 L19's the high ground?

 

For anyone on the Link boards, please feel free to chime in: http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17830

 

bottom line here is you gotta pay to play with the big boys...and like it or not (someone in this thread said something about flipping a coin) you can buy the best of the best for your dsm and something is going to break...hell you flip a coin everyday that you still own a dsm and go outside and try to start it...i think its pretty simple at this point...

1) Either buy arps (since thats part of the usual upgrade path) and actually keep your dsm running long/well enough to run 30+psi and enjoy it, if the head lifts then upgrade.

OR

2)If your building a car that you plan on banging 40psi out on, then spend the money and get the stronger material head studs and call it a day

 

I was actually referring to a direct replacement 11/12mm stud just like the standard ARP's but in L19. My company is one of ARP's largest customers, and I'm currently working out a deal/group buy for the L19 studs. I should have more information by tomorrow afternoon.

No I was right. SEE^


Whereas the standard ARP head stud was 8740.

ARP head studs are made of 8740 chrome moly steel. It's a little less strong than their ARP2000 material. L19 is typically only used for rod bolts. The Custom Age 625 would be the next step for stronger ARP head studs.

^ As mentioned here.

Basically talking about using the L19 for head studs, not a 1/2in stud. And not 625.

99gst_racer, comment and clear this.

 

No I was right. SEE^


Whereas the standard ARP head stud was 8740.


^ As mentioned here.

Basically talking about using the L19 for head studs, not a 1/2in stud. And not 625.

99gst_racer, comment and clear this.

Asmo, you have me so confused man... I agree with everything you just said!

So lemme get this straight. You rate ARP 8740<L19<Custom 625? If so, we're in agreement.

 

Double Post

 

Although I'm not exactly sure what you're confused about, that might be a good idea.

Do some research on L19/H11 steel too. I'm under the impression it is the exact same material. I have no idea what this "middle ground" 12mm L19 stud thing is...unless you consider 1/2 L19's the high ground?

And another thing, anytime someone wants to give you another option. Don't fight him. ARP's<L19<A1
Running 40psi? Go to A1's
Running 30psi?+ L19
Running 30psi< ARP's

To clarify:

The only reason I said 1/2" L19's was because of the A1>L19 post shown above. As I said earlier, H11 (which A1's are made of) and L19 are the same material.

1/2" L19's (or H11's ), I assumed would be the step following L19's, without going to Custom 625 that is.

 

The difference between the A1 and L19 solutions is that the L19 still has C/Moly nuts & washers.

I wonder how that combination as a whole would perform in comparison to the A1's

 

Does anyone know of a vendor that sells the A1's? I looked on there website but I didn't see anything but pic's under there "product" link........unless I was looking at the wrong website or something.

 

To clarify:

The only reason I said 1/2" L19's was because of the A1>L19 post shown above. As I said earlier, H11 (which A1's are made of) and L19 are the same material.

1/2" L19's (or H11's ), I assumed would be the step following L19's, without going to Custom 625 that is.

OK I'm good now. I had thought the A1 studs were stronger than the L19 material. I thought I had read it carefully, but must have missed that detail.
Thank you.

 

The difference between the A1 and L19 solutions is that the L19 still has C/Moly nuts & washers.

I wonder how that combination as a whole would perform in comparison to the A1's

This is correct. I was informed by ARP that almost all of the L19 head stud kits that they've produced/sold, were sold with standard 180,000 PSI nuts and standard washers.

I've personally never seen anyone crack, break, or strip a standard ARP nut with a DSM before.

 

copper gaskets are 1970's technology, OEM composite gaskets with oringed heads or blocks is a far superior way of sealing these days.

Then why do top fuelers still use them.

In addition they run receiver grooves to mate with the o-rings. I understand some DSMers have success with just o-ringing one side. However the raised o-ring with no groove to crush the gasket into will only increase your piston to head clearance and possibly cause a gap and reduction of clamping force on the other areas of the gasket. I have no concrete scientific evidence to prove this, but common sense leads me in that direction. Regardless of the setup/design/installation, once the cylinder pressure is too great for the studs to handle the head will lift.

The only advantages fuelers have over us are larger diameter studs and 5 per cylinder. BTW most of the teams I have seen and photographed in the pits at NHRA/IHRA events use ARPs.

Although I am just a spectator with mediocre DSMs that just goes to the track for recreation.

 

This is correct. I was informed by ARP that almost all of the L19 head stud kits that they've produced/sold, were sold with standard 180,000 PSI nuts and standard washers.

I've personally never seen anyone crack, break, or strip a standard ARP nut with a DSM before.

I wonder how much the C/Moly washer will deform under the pressure.

With ARP studs, the stud stretches, but if you mix a C/Moly washer with a harder stud, it stands to reason that if the stud doesn't stretch then the force gets transferred to the washer.

If the washer deforms then you'll still lose some of the clamping force.

 

Does anyone know of a vendor that sells the A1's? I looked on there website but I didn't see anything but pic's under there "product" link........unless I was looking at the wrong website or something.

http://slowboyracing.com/estore/product.php?productid=5503&cat=74&page=1

 

Then why do top fuelers still use them.

Because you're talking about an engine that when it makes a perfect pass basically melts itself to the ground. They are rebuilt every run or so and a new gasket put it. If you want to have a car that you are doing that to fine. But if you talk to the guys who race the street classes where engines are not rebuilt like that most of them are using a composite gasket.

 

I've blown out a head with ARP's and a MLS gasket. Wow, never realized that they could be a problem. Not to digress, but are you guys using the older 6bolt 1g head or the later up to '94 head? Rumor has it the cooling jackets are better.

I've seen some built MK4 Supra guys using metal straps on their engines, like the kind you see on shipping crates. Pretty crude, but the idea almost seems valid.

 

I'm thinking about replacing my studs the more i read. Like i said i have the "standard" arp's, but i lose a little coolant from time to time while running hard.
Today i noticed the 50/50 mix looks rusty?

 

This is correct. I was informed by ARP that almost all of the L19 head stud kits that they've produced/sold, were sold with standard 180,000 PSI nuts and standard washers.

I've personally never seen anyone crack, break, or strip a standard ARP nut with a DSM before.

Blah blah blah, new kits getting made or not?
I want to put this 3065 on ASAP. I'll wait until I get the studs (previously to blowing my head gasket) if you're actually going to make them. If not I'm buyin A1's and switching them out before I blow it. I really don't want to buy A1's... so get it done already...

Mmmmkay?

Asmo <--- test mule. C'mon toss a set my way. I have the fuel to run more than enough boost to "see if they hold up". I personally have no fear of the standard washers/nuts being a problem. The stress will attack the weakest link in the arrangement. Which will be the longest portion of the connection. The stud. If it can absorb the force the nut just has to hold. Which being threaded has a wider surface area to distribute the load incl the washer. I highly doubt it will deform under that load as it doesn't now. The stud does. So its obviously NOT the weakest link.

The washer will not deform under the nut, the washer has a greater probability of sinking into the head. Which, if you're putting that kind of force onto the head, nothing would hold it. Which also cannot be true, since the A1's do the job. (Same arrangement)

So get them done and get me some.

 

I'm finalizing the details as we speak. By tomorrow, I should be working with exact figures and I will spill the details on all the major DSM forums within the next 1-3 days. As of right now, this is something that will definitely happen. I'll be taking orders by tomorrow, hopefully.

 

I'm finalizing the details as we speak. By tomorrow, I should be working with exact figures and I will spill the details on all the major DSM forums within the next 1-3 days. As of right now, this is something that will definitely happen. I'll be taking orders by tomorrow, hopefully.

Good answer.


I can speak with you in a PM, but is it possible to just get the studs from you as well? Or will it be sold as P/N# 65XXXXXXX as a kit with no break down option?

My point, for someone new buying studs, the S/N/W kit is necessary. But since the nuts and washers are the same as in a standard ARP kit, I see no point in buying them if I already have them. For those of us looking to upgrade stud strength but already have ARP's. I'm sure this adds complication to merchandising the kits, and maybe not as an advertised option. But atleast upon request?

I could always pull and pack my whole kit to sell it. But, if I can save what I'd get for a used kit of ARP's why bother? But I don't know how much the nuts and washers factor into cost. So, again... let me know.
I'm game.

 

^^ I dont see this being a problem at all. It would probably save $30 or $40 as well.....