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idle surge with no cure

1.3K views 16 replies 4 participants last post by  turbocharged_ta  
#1 ·
ok i got a 92 talon n/t and bought a used jdm cyclone engine for my car and after i put it in well it started but has a bad idle surge and first of all i dont know why a engine with 40k on it would have a leak on it, or the isc motor bad, which i replace along with the throttle body gasket and it looks like all vaccumelines are good and the egr is allready blocked off and the idel is about 1500 rpms and it is not the idle skrew either and when i adjust the idle skrew out i get this whistling noise from the intake, and the surge goes faster and faster as i adjust it out, but when i adjust the skrew in the it slows the surge down and when i close off the skrew all the way tight it stops the surge for the most part, except for every once in a while but i still cannot get the idel below 1000 and i think it is also running real rich and throttle response sucks, and the engine i replace had a 182,000 miles on it and the cyclone does not seem to be that much quicker, but i think that is from running rich, or lean i dont know. i have searched and everything i have found out i have tried and now i am hopeing someone can help me out. oh yea and how do u adjust the lean rich mixture, or is the idle surge causing that. thanks in advance.
 
#3 ·
There has to be a vacuum leak. Did you replace the Intake Manifold Gasket? Do you have the cyclone on there or a US Spec Intake mani?
 
#5 ·
turbocharged_ta said:
i do have the cyclone intake manifold and throttle body which was diff from my throttle body but everything seemed to hook up fine, but i doubt the intake manfold gasket is bad, but it would not hurt to check it
MIne surged bad because of the Intake not being completely sealed. I would also swap in a US Spec Intake manifold, they flow better than the Cyclone.
 
#6 ·
i thought the cyclone was a better intake manifold, than the us intake, and the cyclone throttle body is bigger than my us engine so i figured it was a better set up, but my car is running like crap i think the intake manifold is leaking, but the car does not feel any faster than the engine i took out of it and it had 182k on it is it because this leakey intake gasket?? please let me know
 
#7 ·
turbocharged_ta said:
i thought the cyclone was a better intake manifold, than the us intake, and the cyclone throttle body is bigger than my us engine so i figured it was a better set up, but my car is running like crap i think the intake manifold is leaking, but the car does not feel any faster than the engine i took out of it and it had 182k on it is it because this leakey intake gasket?? please let me know
Was the original engine a N/A, and this JDM a T? If your car feels like its a N/A, then you have a leak some where, how is your boost?
The cyclone is designed to twist the air (from what I'm told) but the chambers in the cyclone are smaller in diameter than the US spec. Much better times have been seen out of the US Spec Intake.
 
#8 ·
Getting back to the basics, anytime your idle hits 1500 the engine is going to surge. The high idle is due to too much air entering the engine, The throttle plate may be too open, ISC maybe not be adjusted correctly, FIAV permantly open, BISS o-ring cracked or missing, temperature sensor out of whack or you have a leak.

I'd start by trying to set the idle to 750 with the timing and ISC grounded. If you can't slow it down to 750 rpm then start checking the other stuff.
 
#9 ·
barney said:


I'd start by trying to set the idle to 750 with the timing and ISC grounded. If you can't slow it down to 750 rpm then start checking the other stuff.
You adjust the cam angle sensor to change the timing and slow down the engine. Right?
 
#10 ·
Silver TSI said:
You adjust the cam angle sensor to change the timing and slow down the engine. Right?
It will do that but that is not it's purpose. Ground the plug and set timing to 5 degress before BTDC using a timing light. Slowing the idle this way (retarded) would make the car run like sh#@t at rpm.
 
#11 ·
the car was a n/a and still is with the new engine, and i have replaced the isc motor and the tb gasket and have tried everything to get the idle down but it will not drop below 1000, now i swapped cam sensors, well i took mine off my engine and put it on the cyclone, now could that made it skrewed up, and i started to change the intake manifold gasket but it was all ready 2:00 in the morning and that looks like a very hard gasket to replace i dont know if i want to even attempt it, i am getting so sick of my car, the surge is a small prob compared to my tranny leak, try to answer this one. ok the tranny started leaking gear oil, by the way it is a 5 speed front wheel drive, anyway it starting dripping a couple of drops every time i stopped somewhere no big deal well i got under my car and saw on the drivers side where the axel goes in the tranny, it looked like it was leaking so i figured it was the little seal, so i replaced that but when i put it in there is a little part of the casting where the seal does in that is rough so it was ripping the seals as i was putting them in but after the 4 one i got it to go in there so i thought it was sealed but started dripping agin today. the only other thing that i can think of is my axel slides in and out really easy could that be making it drip, well please let me know cause i think i am going to buy a new axel so it holds in the tranny better. thanks
 
#12 ·
If the tranny housing is marred try some RTV on the exterior of the seal. A new Circlip should fix the axle problem.
 
#14 ·
Well, there's the dealer. Or, ask any guy who has an AWD. Any time you order a Circlip for an AWD they send two. On an AWD only one axle takes a Circlip.

Also, a parts store boot kit includes a Circlip. Since each axle takes two boots you end up with extras. Any DSM shade tree buddy probably has a few.
 
#16 ·
I had an axle seal leak. I guess I dinged it when replacing the axle.

Check the axle for any sharp edges. Sand or file as necessary. Also, apply some grease to the axle before installing. Be careful you don't bang the seal.
 
#17 ·
well i fixed the idle surge by putting my old throttle body on but it still runs pretty rough i can hear a loud hissing or sucking sound even with the hood closed and people around like when i went cruiseing last night said they could smell how rich it was running. i put a thick bead of the rtv silicone around the seal and it is still leaking i dont know what it is so im replacing the axel and that seal. then if it leaks it is something in the tranny causing it. do u think that the axel could be woubling inside the tranny to make it leak?? and what sensor on the tb controlls the idle when the car is cold and starts up like in the mornings casue with the old tb it idles a 3000 when it is cold and i want to fix it. the car when it is warm it idles at 1000 right now but when i fix the leak i think it should start to run fine. what would be the best way to go about changine the intake maniflod gasket. i did a search and some people take the whole head off, but the some people remove the bat tray and reach under, but then how would u torqe them to specs. oh yea and how would i build a leak tester do they have hose big enough to go on the end of the n/a throttle body?? sorry about all the questions but i am learning alot about my car and even though it is broke alot i still love it and like working on it to a point. thanks alot