[JayRolla]

Ok so have I had this wrong. I thought going back to 1-3*btdc would give you less timing. People have said to run 7-10*btdc to get more timing. Do I have it backwards. The closer to TDC is more timing??

 

[90_talon_matt]

What are your plugs gapped at? I'm wondering if your gap is retardly big and your're gettin spark blowout at even 16-17psi. This should never happen but I'm running out of ideas.

 

[TSI@PSI]

Gapped at 0.28". So about half hour ago i disconnect the knock sensor and plug in a good used one mounted to the firewall. ( old one still connected to the block ) Took it for a test run but i still get knock, like 20 counts so i thought may be give or take fuel out of some rpms would help but no. Even running rich i get knock. So come home pop the hood, grab a cresent wrench and start to hit on the knock sensor (the one mounted to the firewall) while engine running - no knock. ?????. I think timing should get pulled any time i tapped it hard but no, nuthing.

 

[PSIinthaTSI]

The scope is a pretty useful tool. Itll show you all the readings you need. Fuel trim, air intake and anything the engine is doing. might cost you an hour of labor at A shop if you dont buy a handheld one but they do wonders. Might show you the problem pretty quick. Your setup looks about what I want to get into and I would hate to see this problem especially cause there are more people having it.

 

[TSI@PSI]

Scope. hahhhh . lol. Tried that at work and MAstertechs couldnt figure it out. Since then i have been messing with the car by myself.

I still didnt get the answer for my question.

If the knock sensor is mounted to the firewall or hanging without rattling or swinging, Will i still get knock when driving. Also while engine idling, i hit that knock sensor with a wrench hard, still didnt show no knock in the logger.

Also i noticed that as soon as i hit boost(15psi) knock comes up. Anything under 15psi no knock?? Any clue?

 

[TSI@PSI]

I wanted to check continuity in the knock sensor wires to the ecu, How much? vfaq dont have that.

 

[diambo4life]

I just cant think of why setting the timing at 5btdc gets me crazy knock counts but while set at TDC no knock at all?

I do NOT understand what's so mystifying here at ALL! ROFLMAO! :dunno: Your car is knocking because you are running TOO MUCH timing advance. OF COURSE it will knock LESS at 0* TDC because you are scaling your entire timing curve back by 5 degrees. :huh: Stop trying to chase a magical timing number and run what your car allows you to. With 190+ compression, do NOT expect to run the factory timing curve on pump gas. It will NOT happen.

5 pages for nothing. Tune is all about balance. AFR, Boost and Timing. To get the most power out of your car with a given fuel octane you will have to find the middle point. There is nothing wrong with your car. You are just forcing it to take more timing than it can. All you're doing is stressing your rod bearings and head gasket. Either retard the timing and run a little more boost till you hit the motor's knock threshold or keep the boost down and leave the timing stock, or run a higher octane fuel if you want to run more timing and more boost. It's that simple.

-Mike.

 

[TSI@PSI]

First thanks for stopping by. Second, as you said "RUN HIGHER OCTANE FUEL"
Tried that wouldnt help. If the car is set at TDC, car dont get that much knock but stopps to pull after 4k ( kinda like N/a cars). I even tuned the car with wideband o2 And timing set at TDC - car wont pull, 5BTDC get crazy knock. ????

 

[TSI@PSI]

Also i have the keydiverchip.

 

[diambo4life]

What options do you have on the chip?
What AFR are you running?


The knock did not subside when you put race fuel in the tank?

What do you mean that the car stops pulling after 4k rpm? I will check on this later when I leave work.

 

[TSI@PSI]

Rev limit, oct reset to 91, boost gauge to knock conversion,650cc, maft,BAsically stage 3. I had it tuned at 11.5 and still had knock like 18 counts. Then tried to tune it with TDC, an had no knock but car wont pull. I mean no torque at all. You know how it pushes you back to the seat, yeah it wont.
No power above 4k.

And yeah 100oct didnt help. If turn the boost above 16psi, then the car starts to sputter at 4k and around 5.5k.

 

[diambo4life]

Rev limit, oct reset to 91, boost gauge to knock conversion,650cc, maft,BAsically stage 3. I had it tuned at 11.5 and still had knock like 18 counts. Then tried to tune it with TDC, an had no knock but car wont pull. I mean no torque at all. You know how it pushes you back to the seat, yeah it wont.
No power above 4k.

And yeah 100oct didnt help. If turn the boost above 16psi, then the car starts to sputter at 4k and around 5.5k.

It's obvious the car will feel less torquey with less timing advance BUT that doesn't mean the car is making less power or slower. That's where the ass dyno will lie to you. You should actually do this on a dyno or at the track and verify that the car is indeed losing power with some data to back it up. You can also check in your logs how fast it goes from say 60-90mph (flat road) and repeat with various settings till you get the setup where it covers that speed range with the least amount of time with consistency. Right now you are doing more harm than good by chasing an imaginary timing number. Tune the car for little knock counts while still maintaining reasonable boost and keep it there or you will break things. As for the fuel, try a higher octane (like 110 leaded) and see how it responds.


If the car is sputtering at a certain RPM it could be either your spark plugs, wires, or coil pack. Seems like ignition related to me and nothing to do with the knock. Do you have the PK code on your KD chip?

Is the car maintaining a steady AFR throughout the pull? From the data you supplied earlier, the FRO2 voltage was dropping with increase in RPM which from my observations has always been associated with leaning out in the top end from inadequate fuel supply like a fuel pump issue.

 

[TSI@PSI]

Ive tried setting the timing at 5btdc, 3btdc,and tdc
Tdc - car wont pull
5btdc , 3btdc - to get rid of knock, car has to run really rich.
Today i ran my homeboyz type R ( which ran a 13.8 sec 1/4 last week) and he left me behind about 5cars. My timing was set a TDC with zero knock. I surely know that all these mods i have, i better run is low 13's or 12's if possible. So somethinks just not adding up.

Sputtering issue - spark plugs are a month old ( ngk bp7res @ 0.28'') , wires are 5 months old, and havent changed the coil pack before. And n idle my car miss fires like in every 3 -5 sec.

Pk code - thats what i forgot when i ordererd the chip.

The A/F was dropping as rpm was increasing.

WHen i bought this car, fuel pump was already installed(255). But the owner forgot to Install the spacer on the pump before the O - ring and cap. At that time my car pulled hard but leaned out about 5.5k above. So i rewired my fuel pump and installed that spacer on it too. Since then my shit never ran right.

 

[TSI@PSI]

Ok its about 45* outside and i set the timing to 3btdc. Did couple 3rd gear pulls @ 20psi. HAd 3 counts of knock around 4k, no knock above that. Timing advanced around 19* @ 6.9k. This may sound stupid again but car loses power and torque in high ends. Plus it was running stupid rich( a/f 10.3) 4k above. Leaning out got me more knocks so i set the hi settings where it was before.
i just dont know what it will take for me to get rid of this stupid problem. Any advice would really help me.

 

[TSI@PSI]

I think my problem. Lately ive been having misfire problem. I got the manual from the dealer ship to check the ignition coil and power resistor. Done this test 3 - 4 times already and all these leads me up to REPLACE ECU.(checked the resistance, volts).

My question, is the ecu in limp mode - getting knock to pull back the timing just to save the engine? Need inputs before i order mew ecu and where can i get an eeprom one?

 

[TSI@PSI]

I live in sacramento CA, and at day time its somewhere around 90's and at night about 50's. When its cold it gets really low knock counts and high when its hot. Really dont know whats going on with this car.

 

[izenja]

I don't think the ECU would fake knock to pull back timing. Also, I wouldn't recommend buying an ECU just because those coil pack diagnostics didn't check out.

The first thing I noticed that stuck out is how low of a airflow Hz reading you're getting while datalogging. If the ECU is reading low airflow, it won't inject as much fuel. But then again, you said you checked with a wideband and know that it's not leaning out too much.

I don't think it's as someone said where you're just trying to run too much timing for the setup. You tried lowering boost quite a lot and running high octane gas and it didn't fix the knock.

I really hope you get this figured out as these kinds of problems are very frustrating. I'm having a similar problem but not as severe and I know there's certain things that might be causing it. You said your problems started after messing with the fuel pump and rewiring it. If they started at that exact moment, I really suggest thinking hard about what could have screwed up there. Did you rewire it correctly? Are all the contacts good and you're getting good voltage to the pump while driving? If the problems started soon, but not immediately after the fuel pump stuff, then it's pretty likely that that's not the problem. But then again, you said that the A/F ratio checks out so that makes it seem like it's not fuel pump related.

It sucks reading these kinds of threads all the time but rarely finding a happy solution in the end.

 

[turbolaser]

Question for you. When you swapped in the 2g maf you did try to lean out the afc setting right. You know a 2g maf is different then a 1g or maft. I would try that 2g maf again and change your settings. Example: If you take a 1g car and put in 550cc injectors at same time as swapping to a 2g maf your fuel trims are fairly close to 100%. So when you swap that 2g maf in you have to adjust your afc to compensate for the maf, the keydiver chip is set to a 1gmaf/gm maft, and 2g is different.

 

[90_talon_matt]

Question for you. When you swapped in the 2g maf you did try to lean out the afc setting right. You know a 2g maf is different then a 1g or maft. I would try that 2g maf again and change your settings. Example: If you take a 1g car and put in 550cc injectors at same time as swapping to a 2g maf your fuel trims are fairly close to 100%. So when you swap that 2g maf in you have to adjust your afc to compensate for the maf, the keydiver chip is set to a 1gmaf/gm maft, and 2g is different.

You would have to richen it up when switching to a 2g MAS not lean it out. The 2g MAS hides airflow from the ecu and this is why swapping to a 2g MAS and putting 550cc injectors in almost cancels each other out tuning wise.

 

[TSI@PSI]

Well i tried tunning with 2g mas but it had same quantity of knocks.

Yes, after i fixed my T-belt, i ran into fuel pump issues. It used to pull hard but hit fuel cut due to not enough fuel. After fixing it power was gone and knock started. Then had the FP wiring back to stock till today but didnt help. Also checked the voltage drop while accelerating.Stays above 13v. Even i verified 1.1 a/f ratio. Good.

Last thing i have to do is take that built motor out and slap a stock one in there.
Also i keep on blowing HG.This is my 2nd time now in 2 weeks.